Horn Transposition

[Deleted]

Hello folks,


I need a bit of a refresher on transposition.




On the attached photo of a Beethoven score, there are 'Corni' = Horns, in D and in B. I notice that both are without a transposed key signature, unlike the clarinets for instance...

Looking at the first notes, what would those horns actually be playing? Do I transpose up? Down? On of the Horns is in B but the key has a Bb?! Oh Beethoven, you....


As you can see I need a few pointers!




Thanks for your time,


Jamie

Attachments:

[Joseph]

Jamie, an easy way you remember transposition is simply to recognize that usually the transpostion reference, e.g. horn in F means that when you write a middle C for the instrument you will hear an F when it is played. Likewise with a D instrument if you write a C when the instrument plays it you will hear a D, etc. Your score with the Corni in B, realize that in German the "B" is actually a Bb. It is not atypical to write for orchestral horns without the use of a key signature, writing in all of the accidentals.

[Joseph]

more help from the Talk Classical website;

So the answer to your question is

For a Horn in F:

Music in D would be written out in A major with no key signature one fifth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in E would be written out in B major with no key signature one fifth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in G would be written out in D major with no key signature one fifth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.


For a horn in D:

Music in D would be written out in C major with no key signature one tone lower with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in E would be written out in D major with no key signature one tone lower with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in G would be written out in A major with no key signature one tone lower with all the accidentals written in the part.

For a horn in E:

Music in D would be written out in B flat major with no key signature one minor sixth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in E would be written out in C major with no key signature one minor sixth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in G would be written out in E flat major with no key signature one minor sixth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

For a horn in G:

Music in D would be written out in G major with no key signature one fourth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in E would be written out in A major with no key signature one fourth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

Music in G would be written out in C major with no key signature one fourth higher with all the accidentals written in the part.

[Deleted]

Thanks a bunch Joseph! I think I just have trouble with which ones go up and which go down, like the clarinets in Bb sound higher and the horns in D sound lower. ( I think? )

[allanh]

Hi Jamie

Have you tried inputting the first couple of bars into Sib. as it is, setting the instruments as they are on the page, and then using the transpose to concert pitch. Then you will see exactly what notes the horns are playing in the chosen key of the piece. Quite simple to do really.

Allan

[Deleted]

Hello Allan,

It wasn't until after my last post that I realised that doing that in Sibelius would have made it a whole lot easier!


Thank you!

[wizzarts]

Be happy that you don't have to deal with horns in bass-clef...

[Deleted]

What type of horns use the bass clef?

[Kevin]

Most of them.

[Deleted]

Really? That's quite interesting. I've heard they are a difficult to play? Any one have any experience playing them?

[ceg]

Norman Del Mar's Anatomy of an Orchestra is a good reference on horn notation.

I'd don't have it to hand, but from memory, I thought that Horns always sounded lower than their written pitch. So a Horn in D is written a 7th higher than sounding. I think that there is both a Horn in Bb alto (which sounds a 2nd lower) and a Horn in Bb basso (which sounds a 9th lower) - not sure which Beethoven meant.

The bass clef stuff gets complicated, because some composers when they write in the bass clef they mean it to be played an octave higher than the identical note written using the treble clef. Others don't. And some seem to change their minds half way through a piece...