The Mysteries of Music Engraving

[Deleted]

I want to launch this thread by asking for responses to the following queston: what does the term "music engraving" mean to you?

[Joseph]

the art of designing & formatting a written score for printing/publication.

[Deleted]

This is an excellent general answer Joseph. What I want to do, when I'm in the right 'head space' for it, is delve into the intricacies of this. For me, at the moment, what is important is to emphasize the fact that being able to input musical data into a software notational program is not in and of itself "music engraving". Music engraving involves understanding the conventions that exist regarding correct notation and that those conventions have been handed down through the centuries and that it is important to understand those as best as possible and to respect them, and to learn as much as possible about all of them.

I will return to this thread over the next several weeks because I would like to help everyone learn a few lessons about music engraving. We have to remember that music is a language and therefore, in order to communicate this language properly, we need to understand the 'grammar'.

[ceg]

Before the days of Musical word processors such as Sibelius and Finale,the book "Writing Down Music" by Alan Boustead was my 'bible':

www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Down-Music-Alan-Boustead/dp/019317104X

[Kevin]

Not really engraving but I recall arranging Romeo and Juliet (PIT) for wind band using an ink pen! 6 months of toil. I have no idea where the score is now, like much of my earlier music it has all disappeared.

[wizzarts]

Engraving, started as a craft, very quickly became an art. A "good" engraved note-sheet represents the music written on it.
One will need a "good eye" and a life-time-expeerience.

Photoshop (or other graphic programs) doesn't make you a designer and a notation program doesn't make you an engraver.

Spaces between notes not only depend on the note-duration but the tempo they suposed to be played. Similar bars (in a reprise) have to look the exactly the same otherwise musicians will play it differently. This is a well-known psychological effect.
So one can say "good" engraving reduces the time of rehearsals.

The list of items is too long to name everything...

I am encouraging Mr. Raimund Lintzen, a good friend of mine, to join the SOS-board. He is one of the top-engravers world-wide working for all international publishers. I am sure he could be a real benefit to everybody.

Also there is a big difference between us-engraving and european engraving. (Please don't take this wrong)


It is a question of time and money as well. Modern publishing houses are not willing to pay more than it is absolutely necessary. So an engraver has to make the decision when something is good enough (but not his high standard)

The very important thing is that the notation program is only a tool to engrave music. Now-a-days the lack of the notation program determines the way of engraving. Unfortunately I have seen this too often. (Hal Leonard, Warner, Boosey&Hawkes)

Take a book and hold one page against the light. The lines on both sides of the page have to be exactly on the same baseline. US publishers don't pay attention on this any more. This is the result coming from the lack of Indesign not being able to adjust the so called "register" (german: Registerhaltigkeit)

I had to make a decision about the quality of my music. I have adjusted all dif. settings for weeks and saved them as a house-style. This is what has to work... But also I know that this is just 10% of what one could do if there is more time. Also I would have to switch to Finale which I do not like. I like the workflow of Sibelius (as a composer) knowing that it is miles away from high quality engraving.

I am talking too much... sorry....

So I close my post with a quote:

"This is exactly my music sounds like" - Antonin Dvorâk when he got the first print of his symphony no. 9 "From the new world" published by Simrock/Berlin

3ndy

[adrianallan]

So are you suggesting that you can get better quality engraving from using Finale instead of Sibelius?

[wizzarts]

Well, when all the good ideas collected at the Sibelius Feedback Community are included in Sibelius 8 this would be a great step forward.

But this is only my oppinion based on my experience when engraving for the great publishing houses.

As an composer I always would prefer Sibelius. The work-flow is outstanding. But there are a lot of things hindering the engraving process. When engraving high quality note-sheets you will need control of every single pixel.
But Finale is very time-intensive.

If you are asking me which program is best for engraving then I have to say "Score". But this runs only on DOS and is not in development anymore (since 1990 I guess...)

It really depends on what you are, - a composer or an engraver.

I love Sibelius and my house-style is fair enough...

3ndy

[Joseph]

I know how electricity works but when I need electrical work done, I call an electrician. To the point, I am not, nor do I want to be an engraver. Thank God someone else wants to [be an engraver]. :-)

[wizzarts]

well spoken... Joseph...

[Rosqvist]

Need to study this music-engraving "discipline of the arts", long time since I played pianomusic by following the instructions, although I still do know how to read sheet music. Slowly.

To make the instructions easily accessible and easy to read for musicians out there, should be the goal of the engraving business?

So, are there any tutorials out there, for people like me who know how to read the sheets, but attempts at making my own look good and follow practice, has failed.

[Deleted]

Well, Andy, I quite agree that Score is the best, although quite cumbersome and time consuming to use. You can put anything anywhere, and create your own symbols if needed. Score (using ancillary software)was not good at importing midi.

I remember Leland Smith telling me that all the major publishing houses were using it, except Henle. But a few years ago, I contacted Henle, and they were then using Score, modified to suit their needs. I don't know who is still using it. Henle is my preferred edition, so clear and easy on the eyes.

In favor of Sibelius, I have no trouble reading any Sibelius scores, especially my own. I printed a few Frankie Carle piano scores because the original quality was really difficult to read, and my versions are crystal clear. This was at a time when I was in need of cataract surgery and had macular degeneration problems, as well as serious astigmatism, and the clarity was obvious even then. Now, with the worst of the eye problems in the past, the clarity of the scores is fantastic. So my outlook is that while Sibelius may not meet Henle's standards, and has some quirks, it is quite a good program, and I will stick with it.

Score will work with Windows in compatibility mode, but I don't often use it. My last update disk for it is dated 1999.

Now wasn't that a ramble through the brambles?

Richard

I switched to Sibelius long ago, because Finale (and others) did not suit me, did not work as smoothly. My main regret is that importing from Score to Sibelius does not work well.

[Deleted]

May 30, 2013 22:25:53 GMT Rosqvist said:

Need to study this music-engraving "discipline of the arts", long time since I played pianomusic by following the instructions, although I still do know how to read sheet music. Slowly.

To make the instructions easily accessible and easy to read for musicians out there, should be the goal of the engraving business?

So, are there any tutorials out there, for people like me who know how to read the sheets, but attempts at making my own look good and follow practice, has failed.

My intention in opening this thread was to provide little tutorials but so far I haven't had time to prepare these. I still don't have time for this at the moment but I will provide one example here to be looked at by everyone. In this example, the top G (third beat) in the treble clef (accompaniment) is G#. The question to everyone is "Should the # sign be inserted in front of this note?" either (a) for easier reading for the pianist? and/or, (b) for complete accuracy? Study the measure closely. Keep in mind that the piece this example came from is in the key of D major.

[wizzarts]

do we have to answer here...? Or shall we flood your PM-box...?

[Rosqvist]

Thanks Anne.

Will follow this thread more closely, and check your D major example asap. Now sleep

[Kevin]

Jun 3, 2013 9:16:57 GMT wizzarts said:

do we have to answer here...? Or shall we flood your PM-box...?

Definitely answer here Andy so that we can all follow and learn.