question about vocal arrangements

[adrianallan]

Why is it more common for a vocal arrangement, ie, song, to have the melody doubled by the piano part than for solo instrument and piano?

I buy a lot of vocal sheet music and yes, there is a lot of doubling, sometimes hidden within a chord but not uncommon for doubling throughout.

Can vocalists not stand on their own two feet? This practice seems less common for piano plus solo instrument.

[adrianallan]

I follow suit with this convention, but I have to question whether doubling is necessary or desirable, and if so, when and if not, when not?

[Joseph]

I won't say I do not follow this convention but, the fact is often I do not. It is always a gut wrenching decision for me to double a vocal line in the accompaniment. I do it more often as I write with community choirs in mind but still one might be hard put to find me doubling in that way. I think my song, Mary's Plea, will attest to my position.

[wizzarts]

I guess it is easier.... Songs with piano-accomp. are very often quick-sellers for composers like Schubert. Those sheets were played at home by amateurs. (the upper class, of course)

I don't know why but I can see a scene of "Meet me in St. Louis" in my mind....

In orchestral works vocals are doubled by certain instruments to give them more enforcement.

Just an idea...

[adrianallan]

thanks for the responses so far.
Although there are no hard and fast rules out there, does anyone have any suggestions as to when it's best to double a vocal line, and when it's best to just use a totally different accompaniment?

Looking through my music collection, it seems that nearly all modern/ pop songbooks double the melody line, apart from when the piano part is particularly idiomatic.

People who produce these songbooks of pop records must presumably work to a set of guidelines, but it's not easy trying to condense a multi-instrument pop song onto a piano with vocal line and to achieve something that resmebles the original, especially when the song was originally guitar-based.

Compare that with my sheet music before about 1960, where it is obvious that the song was originally conceived of on a piano.

[Deleted]

I don't pretend to be an expert, but I'd always assumed it was the other way round with pop music, ie it was never intended to be performed with voice & piano like an "art" song. The sheet music would have to go to an arranger who would create parts for guitars, drums, saxophones, trumpets, whatever else might happen to be available (maybe even a big band in an earlier era).

The piano version would also be intended for the singer to learn the song, and for that purpose a pretty much constant doubling in the piano would provide helpful support.

I don't think piano scores were created by reducing a fuller scoring. I'm sure the sheet music came first, but it had to be arranged before you could perform it. Maybe someone who has had more to do with pop than I have could confirm if I've got it right or not?

[adrianallan]

what I was specifically referring to is pop songbooks over the last 40 years or so.
Many of the pop musicians from this era, eg. Beatles onwards, couldn't read or write music, so in no part of their creative process was a score used. After the album is released, a skilled musician/ arranger has to make a "piano-vocal" songbook simply by listening to the recording and making the best job they can of a difficult task. It is my obsevation that many of these books do in fact double the vocal line throughout.

They are used extensively, both by amateur musicians at home, and (in my experience), GCSE students who want to perform the latest Christian Aguilera song, or whatever.

They are always going to be an approximation of the actual record, because it's not usual for a modern pop song to be comprised of 40 different tracks, or layers, of all sorts of instruments and effects.

[adrianallan]

Interestingly, before that era, many songwriters were musically literate, and the song sheet came first and was passed on to the musician to make the most of, and perhaps and arranger to score for a group of trained musicians - I'm thinking the big band time and before, where the folks on Tin Pan Alley busily slogged away on pianos to try and create the next big hit. All this changed after the 1960s.

[Kevin]

I can agree with all of the above!!

[Joseph]

Feb 12, 2013 10:53:15 GMT wizzarts said:

I don't know why but I can see a scene of "Meet me in St. Louis" in my mind....

and yes, Robert Alda hammering out Swanee trying to get the singer to emphasize "How" I love ya . . .

Regarding some of the other comments, in my experience the "Pop" songbooks/sheet music published after the golden age of Tin Pan Alley have horrendous piano parts. It would be better to just offer the songs the way fakebooks are published; melody line and chord changes. No one would ever use the written piano part in these books. I have to wonder about the "skills" of the musician who is paid to put such drivel to paper. Just an opinion from one in whose adolescence purchased too many of these publications.

[Deleted]

Ah, so it seems that my understanding on this subject is half a century & more out of date - like so many other things . . . . .

[adrianallan]

On the subject of poorly arranged pop songbooks, I'm sure most of us have been in the position of a pupil turning up for a lesson with one of these books expecting that, with a single acoustic guitar or whatever instrument, they are going to sound exactly like what they've heard on the radio.

In the last ten years or so there had been an encouraging trend for rock-score type books that feature all the parts. Although you can never notate every nuance of an electric guitar part, it's an improvement on the piano-vocal approach.

[Kevin]

I have found that some book actually try to employ all the little quirks that the singer did. These make it so difficult for a early learner to recreate.

[adrianallan]

Feb 19, 2013 10:22:59 GMT Kevin said:

I have found that some book actually try to employ all the little quirks that the singer did. These make it so difficult for a early learner to recreate.

That's also known as over-notating. Imagine doing that for Christina Aguilera lyrics.

Also there are some songs that are never going to work as a piano-vocal score. The Beatles' Blackbird being a very good case in point.

I collect song books from around 1900, so I've seen a fascinating evolution.

[Deleted]

Jumping into this conversation a bit late, for the moment, I simply want to state that if one is attempting to set music for one or more vocalists, then the critical aspect for the composer would be "how can I write the music so that a) it sounds good (and coherent) and b) it best supports the vocalist(s). I cannot discuss how this is best done in every genre but for classical art song, I think one wants a semi-independent melody line from the instrument(alist). Mimicing every single note is actually patronizing as it does assume that the vocalist cannot 'stand on his/her own two feet'; however, I think enough of the melody line still needs to be there so that the vocalist has some 'sign posts' along the way to assist in his/her 'singing journey' (so to speak). Just my two cents worth on this topic for the moment.