String Trio complete

[mikelyons85]

I'm putting this here for opinions and helpful guidance. I've not written something specifically for this ensemble before, so it's a new venture.

Sib file: Eastern Promises.sib (220.79 KB)

pdf file: Eastern Promises - Score and parts.pdf (646.67 KB)

mp3file :Here

Any critique appreciated.

OK Changed the link to the mp3. Don't know how it waspointing to the video!

[Joseph]

can you share an audio file, Mike?

[mikelyons85]

Hi Joe, I have - it's the third link where it says mp3file - click the word 'Here.'

[gavbrown]

Hi Mike,
This has a forward motion which I found quite appealing: the ostinato works quite well to undergird the whole piece. The spots where the ostinato fades down or drops altogether felt less successful to me because the forward motion seemed to halt. A bit of a more modernist bent for you I note as well and I like it. Thanks for sharing!
Gavin

[Joseph]

I think this is a good start, just a couple of thoughts. What level players do you envision? Its seems to be rather simple technically but for those harmonic glisses. I haven't truly touched a string instrument since high school but I don't recall harmonic glisses being easy. You may want to give that some consideration. As the piece really has a rather repetitive cello line most of the time you may want to add a little more variety elsewhere. For example, by the time you introduce again the violin and viola (m.92) playing those staccato 8th (sorry, American taught) notes together give some thought to maybe having those played as double stops in the viola while the violin soars melodically above (or vice versa!). Since the idea returns again at m.113 to take it all to a finish, a bit of variety the second time you use that idea might be nice. These are just some of MY thoughts. Of course it is your music, your plan to do as you sit fit to get your poetry across to the listeners.

[mikelyons85]

Thanks, Joe, that's very thoughtful and helpful. I'll give it another look. I had more-or-less decided to forget about the harmionic glisses. It doesn't really work on a hearing after a day or so of 'rest'.

Thanks gavbrown. I know what you mean.it is ia bit weaker there, but I was trying to find a way to give the cello some new material so moved the bass line into the viola, but it loses momentum. Maybe Joe's idea will help.

Sorry, but as an aside, I find myself loathing your president more every time he opens his mouth. Blo-Jo is going to be a disaster for this country, but Trump say he likes him - on the radioin the car. I nearly crashed! I wish he'd keep his very much unwanted nose out of our politics.

[Joseph]

Jul 23, 2019 21:47:28 GMT mikelyons85 said:

Sorry, but as an aside, I find myself loathing your president more every time he opens his mouth. Blo-Jo is going to be a disaster for this country, but Trump say he likes him - on the radio in the car. I nearly crashed! I wish he'd keep his very much unwanted nose out of our politics.

take him, he's yours . . . welcome to my world . . . you are oh so screwed.  On the bright side (here, anyway) I'm hoping your @$$h0le will take some of the headlines from our @$$h0le.  We could use a break.  Great Britain, you may need to re-think the name!   
But let us agree not to air our soiled linens here!

[Deleted]

I agree that the ostinato needs to be there the whole time, switching between instruments. You might have to make it a quartet to make that happen.

[mikelyons85]

Hi Bob.

Thanks for your comments. I really don't want to write a quartet. I need to learn to write for more and/or fewer instrumentsThere will be other movements so it's not a deal breaker if the cello gets stuck with the ostinato all the way through. I'm planning a lyrical middle movement that will be just up a cellist's street, as it were.

[Deleted]

I find it to be quite original and interesting, and to my mind this is followed by a very slow, meditative adagio with modern harmonies and dissonances (sorry, letting my imagination fly).

How was the soundtrack made?

Jordi

[mikelyons85]

Hi Jordi.

There is a slow 2nd movement (I'm nothing if not a traditionalist ) though I'm not sure how meditative it is. Possibly more an outpouring of angst? I'm currently stuck in the third movement which is going like a bat out of hell and twice as stubborn! I'm having to wrestle it onto the page. There might be an update before the end of the week!

[mikelyons85]

OK Folks. Files updated. Critiques invited. I've struggled manfully with this one. The 2nd and 3rd movts have taken a lot of wrestling to get them anywhere near what I hear in my head and also to lay out properly on the page. The original links in the OP now point to the new files, so please give it a listen/look. Anyone who knows string theory ;-) please comment on playability!

The first mvt is based on a rhythmic idea and my notion of attractive women in virtually no clothes waving their midriffs at passers by! The melodic material is not particularly eastern, but the minor modes give it a slight feel of the mysterious and the unsettled rhythm in the cello drives it, rather like a recalcitrant camel, into the distance!

The second movement uses some string tricks in the form of harmonics to create a feeling of unease. Like many people, I suspect, I'm not comfortable with the idea of some potentate keeping women locked up just for his pleasure. However, the surroundings are plush and there are gardens and birds and so on and the rooms are pleasant enough. Maybe a young girl is awaiting her master's pleasure on her first night in the harem? Nervous and somewhat over-awed, she is saddened because her heart belongs to a boy from her village...etc etc. various moods. anger, distress and then, finally determination.

The third movement uses the "C Persian Scale" which includes Db, Gb and Ab. This gives rise to some rather odd harmonies. I imagined some dervishes, known for their frenetic whirling dances. I kind of crossed the idea with a jig in 9/8 which gives it a kind of devil-dance feel. String harmonics and double stopping are prominent features in this movement and, as the pace picks up, we hear the melody played on harmonics and passed between the instruments. before a final frenzied flourish as the dance ends.

That's the programme...

[gavbrown]

HI Mike, I listened to the whole thing and will have some more comments when I have time, but just wanted to quickly note that you seem to have resolved the issue I raised above about the forward motion being halted in spots. More later

[gavbrown]

Having listened to it 3 times, I can definitely say this is my favorite of your works I have seen posted. It explores many different spaces, all of them interesting, and contains things I somewhat understand and some things I don't. But the important thing is, I wanted to listen to it again to find out. There is much music out there running in similar veins of exploration, most of which I can't get through, but I got through this and was intrigued enough to come back to listen again. I think you have something really good here Mike! Thanks for sharing it!

[Joseph]

first thoughts, the initial movement sounds good but, as in the second movement's triplets I am just not hearing the definition I'd expect from the odd time signatures, I am not hearing the definition of the triplets, they just sound like eighth notes.  The 9/8 in the final movement also doesn't seem distinctive beyond 6/8.  I think maybe sound accents could help.  Musically I like what I hear I am just wishing I heard more defined rhythms. Maybe I am just jaded from living inside these issues that they just seem "regular" to me.

[mikelyons85]

Thanks, Gavin. Glad you like it.

Thanks, too, Joe. I agree with you. I tihnk a real player would be able to bring out the pulse much better than NP. I set sib's rubato to meccanico because I don't like what it does to most of my music. I might try introducing a little more 'variety' to see if that improves things. maybe my bowing indications could be better? I don't think short value notes speak quickly enough in NP to make the articulation of the those groups clearer. Similarly with the jete markings. I don't think NP knows how to make the 'bouncing' effect I need there.

Thanks again, both, for your time and for listening. It's very much appreciated.

[Joseph]

Mike, re: jete, I don't remember which software package I was using but I once accomplished the jete in a cello part by writing drag. You could try that, maybe write jete, tell Sib not to play it and hide 'drag' maybe it will work. Or hey, write bounce and see what happens (make sure you use expression or technique text). I've been delighted to learn I can write growl and NP does! And yes, when using NP playback must always be meccanico.
I think if you step back and examine the score you will see that you have overwritten your odd time signatures by the way you have tied notes, or written phrases, effectively evening out the rhythms.
In NP rather than short notes not speaking I have often found it difficult to distinguish start points when identical notes are under a slur. But that's another issue entirely. This will be a very cool score when you have finished.

[Deleted]

Regarding the notation, I have no comments.  But the music!!!  Beautiful does not begin to describe it.  I consider it a great work.  It is very much the kind of music that I find ecstatic.  Only complaint: I wish I had composed it first!!!

I have long wanted to write a string quartet or trio, but have not done so  for 20 years because I never got around to honing my string skills. But with people like you writing the kind of music I would write, perhaps I should not bother.

Richard

[mikelyons85]

Thaks again, Joe. I tried drag and bounce but it doesn't work in NP. In fact, I think I found an error in the viola part (which seems to play with a very weak sound as its first jete notes were on the same beat as the cello and so were drowned out. I've fixed that, but I don't know what to do about the triplets. They don't even pulse with accents on! On a very close listen, there's some odd behaviour going on, in that the first bar of the triplets (bar 5 of the 2nd mvt) doesn't even play legato in either cello or violin. I ended up putting 'legato' as a hidden text. When I did this, the accented note of each group came through better.

I know what you mean about the 7/8 pulse. The irregular pulse is evened out a bit by having different tuplets at the end of the bar. I think I wnated that effect to make it feel less rigid and irregularly regular. I wanted it to have an 'unreal' quality, which I think I have achieved.


Richard. you are flattering me. You'll make me blush! Thanks for being so kind."One hears such sounds and, what can one say but..."

For God's sake don't let me put you off! I'm sure you could make a much better fist of it than I have. Anyway, the more the merrier!

Thanks all. You have really helped me to clarify what I am doing with this work. Maybe it was worth all the hard work.

[Kevin]

Mike do you want to add this to the store?

[mikelyons85]

Hi Kevin. Only if you think it's good enough.

I'm sure I replied already, but it seems to have vanished!

[Kevin]

I will, can I have some comments please?

Not sure I can use the wmv file though. Youtube or mp3 please!

[mikelyons85]

Hi Kevin, Changed the link to point to the correct file!

Can you use my comments above?

The first mvt is based on a rhythmic idea and my notion of attractive women in virtually no clothes waving their midriffs at passers by! The melodic material is not particularly eastern, but the minor modes give it a slight feel of the mysterious and the unsettled rhythm in the cello drives it, rather like a recalcitrant camel, into the distance!

The second movement uses some string tricks in the form of harmonics to create a feeling of unease. Like many people, I suspect, I'm not comfortable with the idea of some potentate keeping women locked up just for his pleasure. However, the surroundings are plush and there are gardens and birds and so on and the rooms are pleasant enough. Maybe a young girl is awaiting her master's pleasure on her first night in the harem? Nervous and somewhat over-awed, she is saddened because her heart belongs to a boy from her village...etc etc. various moods. anger, distress and then, finally determination.

The third movement uses the "C Persian Scale" which includes Db, Gb and Ab. This gives rise to some rather odd harmonies. I imagined some dervishes, known for their frenetic whirling dances. I kind of crossed the idea with a jig in 9/8 which gives it a kind of devil-dance feel. String harmonics and double stopping are prominent features in this movement and, as the pace picks up, we hear the melody played on harmonics and passed between the instruments. before a final frenzied flourish as the dance ends.

(quoted here)

Hope this is OK.

Mike

[Deleted]

Mike, I am trying to read your score, but the Sib score is from a newer version than I have, and the pdf link goes nowhere.  Can you advise?

Richard

[mikelyons85]

Hi Richard.

1. What is your version of Sib, Richard? I can post an earlier version.
2. The pdf link works fine for me. Can you describe what happens when you click it, please?

[Kevin]

Thanks Mike

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2019 7:53:04 GMT mikelyons85 said:

Hi Richard.

1. What is your version of Sib, Richard? I can post an earlier version.
2. The pdf link works fine for me. Can you describe what happens when you click it, please?Problem solved.Richard

[dko22]

perhaps you could export to Sib 7.1.3, the last version before Daniel and co were booted out by Avid which is where quite a few of us have remained waiting for Dorico to fully replace it (new version likely be announced this afternoon it seems.

[mikelyons85]

News: The new dorico is out now and I may buy it (Crossgrade).

Version 7.0 score attached.

Eastern Promises_S7.sib (220.93 KB)

[dko22]

Thanks for providing a score I can read --- it's certainly an interesting work and I'm particularly impressed by the second movement, above all at rehearsal B where the music takes a more directly melancholic and emotional turn. Reminds me there a bit of my beloved Janacek. The short programme is very helpful and explains what's going on.

I expect Dorico 3 should work fairly seamlessly with NP but a VSL Expression Map still seems to be a work in progress. Still, I'm sure I'll give the demo a try when it comes out in around 2-3 weeks.