Re: Help with a composition

[Kevin]

Well, it seems the further [farther?] along I get, the further I am from finished. Does that ever happen to you? You know something isn't finished, but in the process of finishing it off, you create improvements that seem to now need more work to tie the whole thing together and so on and so forth. I'm going to be devoting [hopefully, anyway] much time to it this weekend. After that, I'll be able to assess how close I am realistically to finishing it. At the state I left it in, I don't even know what kind of help I need. The trombones are only a small part of the situation at this point. The overall structure, and a troublesome middle section in particular, will be my opponents this weekend;) I think it wants to try to become something symphonic whereas I was only aiming for a tone poem sort of thing originally. We'll see what happens.

Subject moved from Trombones by Kevin

[Kevin]

If you want to post the work you have done I am willing to give it a look over if I can be of some help. Problem shared etc!

[steve]

Okay. Give me until this weekend to do a little more...I'm on a roll since last night. Then we'll look at it together. I'd prefer to email it to you if possible rather than post it publicly at this stage if that's alright with you. But after I finish this last touch up - should be ready by the weekend:)

[steve]

Here's a link to the SibMu score of a piece I wrote some time ago:
sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_score.pl?scoreid=133593
I'm experiencing a glitch I mentioned also in the SibMu chat forum. At the end of each section of the Largo on page 2 the cello note holds longer than the other instruments in the new MP3 I made with the VSL Special Edition. I can find no explanation for why this is so. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?
Here's the shared file for the MP3:
www.4shared.com/file/87825640/86143fc7/Canon_Suite_for_String_Quartet_VSLtake_2.html
Thanks:)

[Kevin]

Lovely music Steve, nice contrasts between the quick and slow sections. Is there a special way to writing canons?

Cannot help you with the techy problem, maybe someone else can. I have e-mailed VSL!

[steve]

I don't know about a special way to write canons, just what I like to do - write a tune a few measures or so at a time, bringing in new voices one at a time (unless augmented or diminished canons are being written, in which case more than one can begin simultaneously) and write in the original voice counterpoint against the new arrivals. It's actually a lot of fun - sort of like doing puzzles. The hardest part is one of the most useful parts for learning how to write music: namely making melodies against the new voices and not just finding chord tones to complete triads, etc. Keeping each voice independently beautiful is always the goal [admittedly not always achieved, but always sought after].

[steve]

Kevin - I haven't forgotten about IO, I just feel there's more I can do. I just haven't found the time yet to do what I need to do. When I have exhausted what I feel I can do, I'll send you a copy of the score.

How goes all? Well I hope.

[steve]

Greetings Kevin and all:)

Here is an MP3 to a very rough draft of Io: www.4shared.com/file/96970805/c633848b/Io_test_MP3.html


Here is the Sib file: www.4shared.com/file/96970915/deeadffd/Io_online.html

It needs much help! This is really the first attempt by me for full orchestra and it shows, all too embarrassingly. PDF to follow for non-Sib users. I really like the idea behind this music, but I'm afraid it may be getting, if not lost, somewhat garbled, in translation [my lack of skills both generally, and with orchestral writing in particular]. Any help anyone may be able to give in getting this to a presentable state would be most appreciated.

[steve]

Here is a PDF of the Io score: www.4shared.com/file/96972054/6859d96b/IoPDF.html

[Kevin]

Thanks for posting the score. I have given it a first listen but will do some more before coming in with comments etc.

[Deleted]

Greetings Steve,

I've been playing your piece a few times now and must say that in all I do not quite understand why you think it needs a lot of work. Having said that I do have one major comment (and yes, blame it on my oldfashoined look at music and my preferencefor tonal and balanced melodic music): I had a hard time understanding the piece's progression. The story that usually lurks in the shades and everyone picks up without even noticing you do. There are many part in the piece where I was impressed with how it comes across, the contrasts as Kevin mentioned, but where do all those good ideas lead to?
Do you have a storyline in your mind for this music and if yes, do you hear it clearly?

Peter

P.S. I'm a long way from making anything like this, so my comments are not hindered by any knowledge (as usual)... sorry in advance if it doesn't make sense at all.

[steve]

Thanks for the feedback - it's been scarce so far in the few places I posted the piece. Sometimes I wonder: is it good and people are awed speechless or is it so bad that people are equally left without their communicative abilities;)

As for the direction, there is none deliberately - Io is Jupiter's inner-most moon and the most violent place in the solar system outside the sun. In fact Io is the most volcanically active body known in the universe. I was merely trying to capture this "violence" musically without resorting to non-musical sounds . The quieter middle section is just a brief respite between outbursts of noxious gas and whatever else spills forth from Io's volcanoes. The truly quiet section featuring Flutes and Harps is supposed to be a redirecting of consciousness upward away from the violent surface towards the sky where we catch a glimpse of majestic Jupiter hovering overhead before being rudely upended by an eruption right beneath our aural feet. Hope this clears things up a bit.

[steve]

As for needing work - the more I listen to the MP3 the less work I feel it needs, but I'm always afraid this is just complacency working its way in;) At the least the balance of the recording might be tweaked a little better - and I'm sure if ever it was to be performed by real people, there would need to be changed to the score? Balance of the orchestra, etc? I really don't know, but I would like it to be perfectly performable by humans and sound well played by a live orchestra, regardless of the likelihood of this ever happening.

[Kevin]

When I look at it I will take playability into account Steve.

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2009 0:11:10 GMT steve said:

Thanks for the feedback - it's been scarce so far in the few places I posted the piece. Sometimes I wonder: is it good and people are awed speechless or is it so bad that people are equally left without their communicative abilities;)

As for the direction, there is none deliberately - Io is Jupiter's inner-most moon and the most violent place in the solar system outside the sun. In fact Io is the most volcanically active body known in the universe. I was merely trying to capture this "violence" musically without resorting to non-musical sounds . The quieter middle section is just a brief respite between outbursts of noxious gas and whatever else spills forth from Io's volcanoes. The truly quiet section featuring Flutes and Harps is supposed to be a redirecting of consciousness upward away from the violent surface towards the sky where we catch a glimpse of majestic Jupiter hovering overhead before being rudely upended by an eruption right beneath our aural feet. Hope this clears things up a bit.

Ok, that makes more sense.
If you wanted you could try to put in a circular motion, a reoccurence of things as it a moon orbiting --> everything that happens on it will happen again and again and again..... This would add to the picture I think.
But that's just if you wanted to still do something significant with it.....

Peter

[Kevin]

Well here we go Steve!

After the opening I stopped listening to what was playing and started to hear what your intentions were (does this make sense?).

There are many scoring errors in the piece that need addressing. This would make te piece come alive. I really feel that this has a fantastic amount of potential once a little more work is done.

I have read the comments on the sibelius site and they all seem encoraging but I really feel that this piece has just begun it's journey to greater things. If you want to take that journey then I am sure there are many friends here and elsewhere that will help Steve.

As far as getting the piece played i might be a little difficult in it's present instrumentation (you require a large force). If it is to get to be considered for a competiotion etc then it will need some work.

Please do not take this asa negative comment Steve, as I said earlier I can hear what your intentions are and I think you know that the piece is not there quite yet.

[steve]

Indeed, it is exactly how I feel that this piece needs major overhaul in order to become a legitimate piece playable in the "real world" by "real musicians". I hope that eventually this piece will attain that status. I am more than "willing" to put as much effort into this as possible. It's the "able" part that needs some help!

[Deleted]

Steve,

Maybe this one could fit this contest:
==========from
National Auditorium of Music 1st International Composition Content, Spain
Deadline: 15 June 2009
Open to all composers. Works for orchestra (specific orchestration), duration between 10-16 mins. Prizes: €30,000; €15,000; €8,000.
Details:
Email: [e-mail]

www.auditorionacional.mcu.es/contenido/noticias/concurso-internacional-de-composicion-auditorio-nacional-de-musica-2013-fundacion-bbva-2009-espana/



Posted: 1 April 2009
======================================

Peter

[Kevin]

Re my PM Steve. Maybe this might be something to aim for?

[steve]

Thanks - I'll take a look into this.

[Kevin]

Hope you got the file/s I sent with what I had done.

[steve]

Sorry not to get back to you earlier - been working 12 - 16 hour days 7 days a week = good for money but VERY exhausting. I have received the file but haven't had a chance to give it a good thorough look over yet. Sometime next week or weekend at latest I'll go over it and get back to you. Thanks again.

[steve]

Hi Kevin,

One initial observation on the revisions: I noticed immediately the beefed up percussion section - wonder why it hadn't even occurred to me!?! Gonna take a good look now, be back tomorrow with feedback. Thanks again.

[Kevin]

All work and no play etc!

[Kevin]

Okay Steve you have had some time now, just how is the piece developing?

[steve]

I've left it to simmer in the unconscious for the time. I need to beef up my orchestration skills before I'll have any real chance to correct the orchestration problems in this piece. It's very difficult without access to a personal orchestra - I wonder how anyone does it at all! I think part of the problem is without hearing it played as I've written it by a real orchestra, I'm having a hard time figuring out what doesn't work with my orchestration and what does.

[Kevin]

Why not post the score (or what you have done) here for the members to help out?

[steve]

That's one of those ideas so basic and simple it eluded me! So... attached is a PDF of the score. If anyone is willing and able to help, I'd love to hear from you.

[Kevin]

I will comment on the first page Steve.

Flute way too low to be heard at that dynamic. Keep the low register for a softer, solo line.
Bass Trombone although he plays pedal A's okay repeating them at forte is not a good idea! And pedal E in bar 6, no way! Breathing has to happen.

Score layout needs a little bit of attention. Trumpet 1 needs adding. The Horns tend to play two on a line.

Repeating the same dynamic can be off putting for the player (trumpet)

Anyway that is a start for you. Anyone else like to come in on this one?

[steve]

Many thanks. I look forward to the day I finish this piece and sit in attendance at its premier.