First competition of 2014

[Kevin]

Welcome to the new competition year!

We will start this year with a little number.

It will be for a piece for oboe and piano.

Here are the details:-

• Style: Mainly tonal(you can venture out of the box if you wish but not too far!)
• Duration: 4/5 minutes
• Standard: Intermediate
• Closing Date: 30th April 2014

The judges for this will be Andrew Thompson (oboe) and Lara Poe (Piano). There will also be a members vote.

Entries to be sent as a sib or xml file to me at [e-mail]

If you have any questions please post them here.

Questions about instrumental possibilities can also be posted here as well. Andrew and Lara will help where they can.

[ceg]

Couple of quick questions - can you clarify "intermediate" in terms of ABRSM grades for the British contingent?

Probably opening up a hornet's nest, but any further guidance on "mainly tonal" - for example, would Britten's Six Metamorphoses after Ovid" count? as "mainly tonal"?

[Deleted]

I would suggest that a piece aimed at an ABRSM grade 6-7 would be considered intermediate and provided you aren't asking for astounding or virtuoso technique you should be fine. 

For those unfamiliar with the Oboe, the normal range is Low Bb just below middle C all the way up to 3rd octave G but that is incredibly rare to find, usually we knock off at 3rd octave F.

As for Tonal music I would agree that Brittens Metamorphosis are tonal but they are incredibly demanding..I think when Kevin asked me as to the style I suggested, Romantic, Tonal so as to avoid some bright spark writing in Multiphonics  like this from Heinze Holliger which though staggering in technique is beyond most Oboists

.

I would also ask you all to remember that Oboists have an eternal problem with ridding themselves of excessive air so allow them room to exhale and breathe..Most Oboists don't circular breathe.

I look forward to seeing the entries.

Many Thanks

Andrew

[adrianallan]

Grade 6 to 7 might be upper intermediate, but we get the basic idea. Even within grades, some pieces are less demanding than others.

Does the piano part have to be similarly set as intermediate? My piano part will be quite busy, but it wont be all that hard.

How about the timing? Does the 4/5 mins mean 5 mins as an absolute max? Thats a little shorter than some of the other competitions. I just wanted to clarify that before I possibly overstep the time limit.

[Deleted]

I would aim for a playable Piano part without the need for virtuosity and 5 mins is a good length, Oboists of an intermediate standard would be able to manage a fairly involved work for this length of time..Oboing is very taxing hence the 4 to 5 minute guidline.

[adrianallan]

Hey, just a couple more questions.

Do oboe players use vibrato on expressive solo passages. This is of interest to me, because unless you are a jazz player, the norm is for clarinet to never use vibrato.

Secondly, am I right in saying that oboe players can play quite long passages before breathing? This is what a few internet searches seem to suggest.

Thirdly, are the lowest notes, Bb, B and C quite secure if not over used? It just worries me a bit that Sibelius colours these notes pink, meaning there are in the "danger zone".

Thanks

Adrian

[wizzarts]

Adrian,

my experience tought me to to avoid at least the lower Bb and B for intermediate players. But this is based on the fact that in Germany the lower notes appear not before grade 3-4 which means 5-6 on your island.

Andrew will give more light into this...

[Deleted]

Hello Adrian and Wizzarts..

Low Bb is a bit of a brute for intermediates but B and Middle C though not the easiest are perfectly acceptable though I wouldn't want you to ask anyone to rumble around at speed at those depths..As for Vibrato, well I use it in long melodic passges and fast spritely stuff as well..as a rule we use a slower vibrato in slow passages and speed the vibrato up for effect and accelerando's ..Oboists are taught to have different speeds of vibrati..it's quite standard..

As for breathing, well yes we can play long phrases without taking a breath but you have to allow us time to recover, re group and re gather our lip before launching us into the next phrase..remember circular breathing is really only used by virtuoso performers, it's not a general technique and very hard to execute..I am still working on the technique myself and wouldn't call it secure by any stretch of the imagination.

Hope this helps..

Andrew

[larapoe]

As for piano, I just thought I'd add a couple things about the piano part and writing for piano in general:

Keep the shape of the hand in mind. Fully spread out, the hands can play something between an octave and a tenth (usually- I know people with bigger hands than that but most piano repertoire does not call for 11ths, and 12ths are really stretching it) so try to keep your chords within that span for one hand. The shape of the hand makes it easier to stretch more between the thumb and index finger than the other fingers, so if you're trying to get a larger stretch or chord, space out the notes keeping this in mind. The thumb can play two white notes at the same time though.

Pianists can also play fast passages- particularly scalar ones or ones derived from scales- quite well. There are certain things to keep in mind with this as well- certain passages fit under the hand better than others. Passages that require awkward leaps, or require odd switches between fingers can work, but require more practice- in general, I suggest trying things out at the piano and seeing how they fit under your hand (even if you're not a pianist, this can work).

Pedaling is good for things like setting down a bass note and letting it ring for some time before going to the next chord. When you lift up the pedal though, all the things you are not holding in your hands will go away though, unless you just have a partial pedal (in which case it will partially go away). If you want to sustain a bass note for some time, you can also use the middle or sostenuto pedal (this pedal can also be used for other really cool effects) but it needs a moment to be prepared. You also can't use this pedal at the same time as both of the other pedals.

Another few things- pianists don't have a need to breathe like singers or woodwind players, but we like phrases that breathe Also, once a note is given, it will decay. We can create imaginary crescendos on single notes, but that's done by other notes in the texture and we cannot actually create crescendos on single notes.

Hope this is helpful! Feel free to ask piano related questions- I will answer them as best I can

[larapoe]

Another thing- Kevin tells me the pieces should be ABRSM grades 5-6, perhaps just barely grade 7.
For those of you who are less familiar with ABRSM (including myself ), here's a list of some pieces and what grades they are:

Grade 5

shop.abrsm.org/shop/syllabus/ABRSM-Piano-2013-2014-Grade-5/12406/167/5

Allegretto in F: from Musikalische Nebenstunden
J. C. F. Bach
conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/ce/IMSLP03829-JCBachAllegretto.pdf

Minuet in D: No. 7 from 12 Minuets, WoO 7
Beethoven
imslp.org/wiki/12_Minuets,_WoO_7_(Beethoven,_Ludwig_van)

Allemande in A minor, HWV 478
Handel
imslp.org/wiki/Allemande,_HWV_478_(Handel,_George_Frideric)

La Joyeuse
Rameau
javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/4/41/IMSLP132661-WIMA.b2a6-Rameau_La_Joyeuse.pdf

No. 26 from Album für die Jugend, Op. 68
Schumann
javanese.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/7/78/IMSLP201697-WIMA.ea6c-op6826.pdf

Grade 6

shop.abrsm.org/shop/syllabus/ABRSM-Piano-2013-2014-Grade-6/12406/167/6

Invention No. 14 in Bb, BWV 785
J. S. Bach
conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/c7/IMSLP00758-BWV0785.pdf

Waltz in Ab: No. 15 from Waltzes, Op. 39
Brahms
imslp.org/wiki/16_Waltzes,_Op.39_(Brahms,_Johannes)

Andante: 2nd movt from Sonata in G, Op. 79
Beethoven
imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.25,_Op.79_(Beethoven,_Ludwig_van)

Mazurka in A flat Major, op. Posthumous
Chopin
imslp.org/wiki/Mazurka_in_A-flat_major,_B.85_(Chopin,_Frédéric)

Grade 7

shop.abrsm.org/shop/syllabus/syllabus.asp?boardid=12406&grade=7&syllabusid=167

Piano Piece in F#, S. 193
Liszt
petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/0/09/IMSLP31673-PMLP11541-Liszt_Musikalische_Werke_2_Band_10_Klavierstueck_in_Fis_dur.pdf

Sonata in E flat major, WoO 47 no. 1, movt. 1
Beethoven
sausage.whatbox.ca:15263/imglnks/usimg/1/15/IMSLP51812-PMLP03360-Beethoven_Werke_Breitkopf_Serie_16_No_156_Sonate_in_Es.pdf
(note: this link contains all three movements- only the first was listed in the abrsm syllabus.)

Sonata in C, K 279, movement 3
Mozart
conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/9/97/IMSLP82506-PMLP01830-Mozart-KV279ama.pdf
(note: this link contains all three movements- only the first was listed in the abrsm syllabus.)

[Deleted]

Excellent and considered advice from Lara above and so beautifully put..the links above are a tremendous help..

[adrianallan]

Thanks Andrew and Lara. Great info so far.

Lara, i have a couple of questions, too.

What do you think about phrase marks in both hands? Do you feel they are absolutely necessary? Or should they only be used when the phrasing is not obvious? I notice that some scores phrase every bar, but others never do. Compare with classical guitar scores. Phrase marks never used...perhaps because they would be confused in some cases with slurs, but we manage to live without them.

And secondly, in a romantic style score would you prefer the pedal marks to be put in whenever they are used, or would it be better to use an instruction to pedal ad lib. Would the instruction be " pedal ad lib"? Again, I see some scores where i imagine a pianist would instinctively use the sustain pedal, but the pedal signs are not put in. Do we agree that the most common sustain sign would be the flowery ped followed by the asterisk? Sibelius offers us a few different pedal signs.

Many thanks

Adrian

[David Stowell]

Feb 22, 2014 23:32:23 GMT adrianallan said:

What do you think about phrase marks in both hands? Do you feel they are absolutely necessary? Or should they only be used when the phrasing is not obvious? I notice that some scores phrase every bar, but others never do. Compare with classical guitar scores. Phrase marks never used...perhaps because they would be confused in some cases with slurs, but we manage to live without them.

Put in as many phrase marks as you wish to get across what the passage should be (whatever the hand). Look at Chopin or Rachmaninov scores (to name but two), to see how and why phrase marks are used.

And secondly, in a romantic style score would you prefer the pedal marks to be put in whenever they are used, or would it be better to use an instruction to pedal ad lib. Would the instruction be " pedal ad lib"? Again, I see some scores where i imagine a pianist would instinctively use the sustain pedal, but the pedal signs are not put in. Do we agree that the most common sustain sign would be the flowery ped followed by the asterisk? Sibelius offers us a few different pedal signs.

I would only put in a pedal sign where I wanted a special effect, or where it was not immediately obvious from the score that a note or notes should be held. Otherwise, leave it to the pianist to use pedal where they see fit (whether for artistic or technical reasons). If you ever watch professional pianists play you will see them using judicious pedal a lot of the time. To notate each pedal mark would be unecessary clutter in the score.

[David Stowell]

Kevin

(A)
Will the winning piece be performed / recorded / published?

(B)
For a subsequent competition can we have one without the grade limitations (e.g. Grade 8 upwards allowed)?

[larapoe]

David, I'd say that is right in terms of pedalling and phrasing. I tend to mark them where I feel I want something really specific- such as if I want some notes to be held by the pedal or I don't want people to do something different with the phrasing. Usually I leave that to the player.
And yes, I do usually see the "ped" sign followed by an asterisk.
Places where I probably would put in pedalling though include:
-If I want something to be blurred and don't want the player to lift the pedal
-If I want to clear the pedal even if it is not obvious that it would be cleared
-If I want to use it for a special effect
In other words, I'd use it in cases where the pedalling would not be intuitive for the pianist.

[Kevin]

David

(A) Could be/If it is it will be/maybe

(B) We could do that but (A) might be difficult to achieve. Watch these pages though as there just me be something right up your street later!

[Kevin]

Well I have just finished my contribution to this, how are the rest of you doing?

[Deleted]

Hello,

I'd like to participate as I recently have written such a piece. Just a question:
Is it required to send a piece as a *.sib file or will a link to Score Exchange suffice?

[David Stowell]

Started, stalled, lost momentum.

Perhaps now that I am on dialysis my health will stabilise and the urge/incentive to compose on a more regular basis will return.


Still..... 5 weeks or so till closing date [the competition, not me ;-) ], so who knows?

[Kevin]

Mar 20, 2014 19:00:05 GMT @vitus said:

Hello,

I'd like to participate as I recently have written such a piece. Just a question:
Is it required to send a piece as a *.sib file or will a link to Score Exchange suffice?

Hi and welcome to SOS. Ideally the piece will not have been in print prior to the competition. We like to encourage brand new music whenever we can.

[Kevin]

Mar 20, 2014 20:37:11 GMT David Stowell said:

Started, stalled, lost momentum.

Perhaps now that I am on dialysis my health will stabilise and the urge/incentive to compose on a more regular basis will return.


Still..... 5 weeks or so till closing date [the competition, not me ;-) ], so who knows?

I am sure that the music will flow again David. Sorry to hear that you have not been too well.

[Deleted]

I have a piece almost ready to submit - when I do, does the score need to be anonymised, or can I plaster my name all over it?

[Kevin]

Please send scores to me. I will then clear all identifying marks!!

[Deleted]

I've rented an oboe for the next month so hopefully something will come of this. I'm looking forward to learning a bit about the instrument.

[Kevin]

4 entries in now, some lovely stuff!!

[John Biggs]

Mar 25, 2014 12:06:27 GMT @annegoodwin said:

I've rented an oboe for the next month so hopefully something will come of this. I'm looking forward to learning a bit about the instrument.

Hi Anne - thats a really exciting and challenging thing to do - hope you have a lot of fun with that. I think the oboe has a great sound.

[Kevin]

A month, Anne!!

Are you aware that the oboe is one of the most difficult instruments to master?

[Deleted]

I have a piece that is 10 minutes but five movements... is that ok?

Tony

[Kevin]

Apr 3, 2014 16:08:35 GMT @britcomposer said:

I have a piece that is 10 minutes but five movements... is that ok?

Tony

You could enter it as long as it has not appeared anywhere in print. The 10 minute duration will be taken into account by the judges Tony.

[Deleted]

Hello Kevin

Where do I send the Oboe and Piano piece to.

Tony.