Alternative Summer Competition Results

[adrianallan]

So here are the results

Each first place got 7 marks, each second place 5, each third 3, each fourth 2, each fifth 1.

adrian allan 25
andrew noahcap 36
john biggs 64
anne goodwin 0
david stowell 21
kevin riley 18
tony jefferson 3
charles gaskell 1
ed sharpe 34
paolo eriani 25
david monks 7
david howard 17
john summers 25
allan h jones 9
david harrison 1
richard wayland 5
kedarnath awati 13

more to come...

[adrianallan]

Comments

Comment 1

Beware by Adrian Allan Pleasant enough; but does not sound like anything to beware of. The tyranny of the bar line; the accompaniment is always changing on the down bear of the bar. No anticipation or dealy in the harmony or the rhythms. “Medium Bossa Feel” Bossa Nova I assume. One of the things that has always struck me about Bossa Nova is that the chord changes (and the accompaniment rhythm) regularly occurs on the “add” of beat four just before the bar line. Also its use of extend chords; lots of major and minor seventh and ninth chords.

Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap The section at Bar 39 broke the flow ofr me. I understand why that section is there, but I think I would want a bit more energy before 39. Perhaps 38 should not have such a nice cadence. Something quite a bit more disonant and “unresolved” would allow 39 to be the “relases” (perhaps a C# diminished 7th chord?). Minor Notation quibble; It is normal to use a sub-brace (bracket?) to group the first and second violins together. I also would not have the solo violin braced with the rest of the strings. I would have it by itself.

Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs Reduce the staff size to keep the score from being too crowded on the page. Full marks for having a transposed score. (Personal preference: I like to us sub-braces (brackets?) to group instrument families together, id est piccolo and flutes together, Oboe and English Horn together, Clarinets together, et cetera.) Why the English Horn in such a high register? Why not the Oboe? Harp is often drowned out by the rest of the orchestra. I understand the the 6/8 section is a “folk song” like, but perhaps it goes too long in a pure diatonic mode. Pleasant enough, but for me soon forgotten. I just did not connect with it on an emotional nor an intellectual level.

Gloria by Anne Goodwin Range! Some strange parallelism between the Alto and Bass and Alto and Tenor (and least those where the ones that struck my ear as being strange). Bars 44 – 54 did not work form me. I think some over lap of the voices might have worked better. Lock step rhythmically between the four voices; I would have like to see just a little independence once in awhile between the voices (rhythmically).

4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell When ever I see “for percussion” My expectation is to find a piece for a bunch of unpitched percussion (Ionisation anyone?) But almost invariably on score exchange the piece features pitched keyboard percussion. This not your fault, yet that seems to always be my experience. And this is dispite the fact that I do love the vibraphone and the marimba. In fact one of my most popular pieces is for Xylophone, Marimba and Vibraphone, go figure. #1 good avoidance if the tyranny of the bar line #2 Good avoidance of of letting the Vibraphone just be a vertical chord machine. Over all excellence, number three on my list.

With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley Full marks for a transposed score. The ¾ section, bar 36 excellent. Nice interplay between the instruments all though the piece. No one section over stayed its welcome. Nice contrasts and changes in the textures. Just missed out; number five on my list.

Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson Minor notation quibble; I personally would have extend the barlines between the two instruments. No need for the fermata in bar four, too loin of a pause with it. A little slow for my tasted, seem to drag at places. Over all nice.

They Told Me by Charles Gaskell Minor notation suggestion; while the four dotted 16th notes are mathematically correct, I personally would have notated it as four sixteenth notes with a “4” tuple bracket over it. As that would be easier to sight read.

59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe My favorite, not voting for it.

Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani Notational issue, why “C” instead of 4/4? Does not seem to fit with all of the other time signatures and changes going on though out the piece. Page seven the transition seem a bit abrupt. Would have like to have seem more variation each time the 7/8 section (main theme) returned. Overall Excellent. My number one.

Crux Fidelis by David Monks Notation quibble: No time signature. I like ot see a tempo/feel/mood text along with the metronome number. Would be nice if you could provide an English translation in th program notes. Should work well for its designed purpose.

Well done. Oriental Soup by David Howard Too cliché and too diatonic for my taste. At two and half minutes it is about two minutes too long. This is the only piece that I did not finish listening to. (Did read the entire score.)

Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers Some minor notational q1uibbles with the way eight notes and sixteenth notes where bar together. The string quartet complements the words and mood very well. Not sure the A major chold at the end works for me,. But it might not be so much an end of the seventh movement as a setup for the next movement? Excellent work, my number two pick.

Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones Rhythmically square, Harmonically dull. Felt like a piece that was trying to offend no one and by doing so said nothing. Call a Meditation for Peace, it was a talk about peace with out acknowledging that there is at times no peace.

Fanfare by David Harrison I might be tempted to put the score in a different order: Trumpets, Horns then Trombone. Too much emphasis on the vertical an not enough on the horizontal for my taste. The ending on the D7 chord did not work for me.

Flitteracy by Richard Wayland For a man who claims to not like drums I have always found Richards music to be highly rhymic. This piece is like a rushing torrent of stream of conscious music; bu this time the music seems to lack shape. Many places the score could be better notated with regards to the accidentals used.

Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati Quite interesting. I enjoyed the first and third pieces very much. Just out of running at number four.

Comment 2
Ed Sharpe's piece nudged out the others due to its musical content being true to its intent, and beautifully rendered in the process.

Comment 3

From David Howard More difficult than I thought comparing all the different styles and instrumentations. So for me it had to be about 'listenability' and I have to admit some pieces were a bit too 'avant garde' for my taste- but I still had to whittle down 7 favourites to 5 (so sorry AN and AJ). Excellent competition though.

Comment 4

This was very tough, I would like to point out David Stowells piece as well as the music by Ed Sharpe, Kevin Riley & Richard Wayland. It was a very tight close 5th place between Mr Wayland and Andrew Noah Cap.

Comment 5

John Biggs beautiful complex tells a story score well laid out and well done magical LOVE ! Interesting elements throughout love all the motifs piece holds together beautifully full use of the orchestral palette, well done smooth transitions (p. 36 – 37), especially at the end again, engraving is very well done

Ed Sharpe excellent composition! Amazing! Very imaginative! Complex and interesting use of wide variety of musical devices

Adrian Allan I tend to look at the score here from a pianistic point of view (conservatory-taught) so, first of all, not sure about the little 2-note slurs that you have in the triplets. Two-note slurs, to me, indicate a “down-up” touch (on the keyboard), legato of course, and put 'shaping' into a piece of music. However, here, it seems to me that you are merely attempting to indicate that these notes in the 2-note slurs “belong together” (m. 6, 8, 9, and 14) and that is not the same thing as 'shaping' exactly. Now, over in m. 18, you have a 2-note slur again, but this time on the FIRST two notes of the triplet and I think again, that you are indicating simply that they “belong together” (as the next note leads into your main melodic motif (melody). And I can see this happening again in m. 26. So, just a suggestion, but I think perhaps a FOOTNOTE at the beginning or end of this piece should be inserted to explain about these 2-note slurs; otherwise, for me at least, if I were playing this piece at the piano, I would be doing a “down-up” motion with my hand (weighted such as a 'rock' falling towards the keyboard on the first note followed by a 'feather' floating upwards on the second note). Again, this is probably not your intention. The instruments the piece is intended to be played with should be marked in the score, especially at the beginning. Do you mean 'medium basso' as opposed to 'medium bossa' feel? The dal segno sign at measure 5 should be made bigger and put in bold as currently, it is difficult to see after playing through several pages and then attempting to locate where it is. Measure 10 – Treble E flat but bass is E natural. I wonder whether there should be a courtesy accidental put in the treble for E flat in order to completely clarify that it is to be E flat and NOT E natural as in the bass? Measure 47 – RH playing notes in LH while the treble as a whole note to hold? Measure 71 – The A natural with the F natural is a very BLAND tone but does appear to go unnoticed and smoothly when played through at the appropriate tempo. All in all, a very INTERSTING conceptual piece with much rhythmic variety and melodic interest. Very nice to go through the changes of tempo and of keys. Beautifully written. Pretty piece. Congratulations!

David Howard very CHARMING little piece! Love it! Seemingly simple in structure but EFFECTIVE For a 2 minute piece, a LOT happens Truly enjoyed this!

Andrew Noah Cap absolutely beautiful, sublime music score is crisp, clear, clean, easy to follow dynamics well marked as illustrated by the expressiveness in listening tell me what “Ahvos” means?

David Monks captures the emotion beautifully very dignified setting of a highly sacred text flawless engraving excellent work!

John Summers certainly does feel very 'solitary' (intro) very well done art song enjoyed that you put in a prelude, an interlude and a postlude very good work

Kedamath Awadi Irony: I like! Innocence: cute piece! , engraving somewhat messy (eg. m. 10 – 12, 42, others), loved the middle section (m. 25 – 32)! Impatience: Cool! , very imaginative, the constantly changing time signatures work brilliantly Enjoyed the structure in all of these short pieces. Given the 'atonal' nature of them, this helped to stabilize everything enough that a piece of music is formulated.

Richard Wayland I like this one a lot lovely, light nice classical sound needs some 'finessing' though, and not quite sure what to suggest to help you with this nice change into the second movement very soothing music as well

David Stowell enjoyed all of these with the third one being completely magical makes me want to learn more about percussion!

Charles Gaskell very effective music for the lyrics evocative who is the lyricist? (Not myself familiar with these words) the engraving is good but not perfect (clashes in some measures, such as m. 33 and m. 45) well done and at a high standard that I'm noticing is your trademark

Kevin Riley cute little piece fun I like!

Tony Jefferson good lovely relaxing, melodic piece enjoyed

Allan H. Jones kind of 'muddy' in places it feels as though it's lacking 'lyrics' seems more like it could be a hymn blending is good overall though very sombre

Paolo Eriani this doesn't really 'grab' me well written and engraved nonetheless it's just not interesting to me, too much repetition and sound is bland (to my ears) m. 253 – m. 303: don't like the sounds m. 340 – 344: long held note is jarring/obnoxious well-structured piece but too predictable in places (i.e. The ending section being one example of this.) The above comments were left by Anne Goodwin

Comment 6

Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap This was beautiful, dark and serious, expressive and effective. I liked the rich sound of the strings, and the very restrained timpani part complemented the strings perfectly.

Beware by Adrian Allan I enjoyed this piece. You start with a good tune (which always helps!) and as it develops the distinctive rhythms produce a recognisably Latin American atmosphere. The tempo changes are well judged, they produce subtle changes of mood, and they keep the momentum going. I have a couple of possible quibbles. Firstly, a few more dynamic markings would improve the score and further underline the changes of mood. Secondly, although the concentration on the lower part of the violin’s range does suit the slightly dark mood of the music (wistful, I would say, rather than sad), maybe an occasional venture into a higher register would have introduced a bit more variety, which in turn would also bring out the yearning mood of the rest of the music? Just an idea . . .

Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs I loved the “folksy” sound of this. If I hadn’t seen the title, I wouldn’t have known it had anything to do with Lincolnshire specifically, but it certainly has an unmistakably English feel. Parts of it reminded me of Vaughan Williams, probably rather more of Bax, and I think I picked up echoes of Delius too. I was also impressed by the way you used the orchestra.

Comment 7

It took me hours listening to all the piece over and over again. At least I picked the ones with that touched me most. 3ndy

Comment 8

For me the sheer beauty and atmosphere created by John Biggs's 'Under Lincolnshire Skies' carried me away. Therefore he gets my number 1. It was difficult to arrive at the other placings. 'Ahvos' evoked a hymn that pulled on the emotions. Very strong. 'Beware' - I really liked this. It grabbed me. 'Summer Evening by the River' - despite the expression 'agressively', I found this wistful. It raised an undefined nostalgia for something lost - but what? 'Oriental Soup' Delightfully cheeky and 'in your face' stuff. David Monks

Comment 9

Marks by Adrian Allan I really enjoyed all of these. It partly boils down to personal preference I am afraid, and people know that I tend to like quite tonal music that has harmonic interest, so that is reflected in my voting and comments. But I did find merit in all of these pieces. Well done everybody!

Kedarnath Awatic music Very clever and detailed score, but Im not really a fan on this style, so the comments I can make are limited to this.

Andrew Noah Cap I enjoyed the piece. Good string writing, especially all the contrary motion. Not sure how viable those 8va stratospheric notes are, especially when the rest of the music could suit an amateur group, being not too hard. If anything, I wanted it to last longer. But a good short piece, nonetheless.

Anne Goodwin Some nice writing. Not sure how many choir sopranos could manage that high B, though. Coming down to personal opinion, I like my music with more unusual harmonies. I also though that the score could perhaps have had more words referring to mood, or just more instruction other than the singular andante.

Charles Gaskell Very detailed score. The music evokes a certain edgy mood and I liked it in parts. Unusual chords, but not really functional or feeling that they gravitated to another chord. Tonality restored at the last chord, which was reassuring.

John Summers Obviously very well scored for strings, with a great deal of knowledge and detail of the instruments. I found the harmony a bit too vague for my liking, and it created a sort of restless sense of unease.

Allan H Jones Nice String writing and the mood was effectively achieved. Reminded me of Elgar in some ways. I thought that the harmonies could have been better defined at times, eg, around the 2 minute mark and that would have given the music more overall direction.

David Harrison Although quite modest in its aims, it was an enjoyable piece with astringent harmonies and interesting crotchet beat syncoation.

Richard Wayland Formidable technique needed for this music and I admire the amount of detail and time taken to score it all out. After about the four minute mark I found it hard to in down a sense of direction, but further listens will rectify that. So a challenging work in every respect.

David Howard Although a pentatonic piece can be a cliche, there was something very endearing about this work. It could have come from a victorian steam organ, complete with moving puppets. The key change was unexpected and sudden, but in the style. plus the instrumentation was ideal in every respect.

John Biggs Very accomplished and ambitious. But you rose to the challenge like a true professional.Very evocative and emotional. This music has it all. Loved the pastoral section with the flute and harp.

David Stowell What I like about your music is that you dont just use free or atonal harmony gratuitously, but it always serves a greater purpose, often to evoke a mood as authentic as a tonal piece. There is a great deal of rhythmic and harmonic interest here and you make great use of the sonorities of the instruments.

Kevin Riley Enjoyed this piece and it will require some tight rhythmic playing to really pull it off live. Interesting dissonance in the middle section. However what I feel the piece falls down on slightly is structure. The initial theme is very fun and catchy.I really expected it to return, especially as the other sections had the feel restlessness of a development section that never really took us back home.

Tony Jefferson Nice piece. I always wonder with scores like this, why not just use a crochet beat to make it easier to read. I like my harmonies to be a bit more obvious, less impressionistic, but that is just my own preference.

Ed Sharpe I respected this piece and mainly enjoyed it. It had a very strong primitivist aspect, like the rite of spring, which fitted the programme for the music. The score also commanded my respect for all its detail.

paolo Eriani Interesting combination of instruments that really seemed to work. Lovely main theme. Strong structure and very clear harmonic direction. Great use of ornamentation of original melody. One drawback for me was that it felt overly long, or should have been split into more movements.

David Monks Although I cant claim to have any real knowledge of sacred unaccompanied music of a historical style, I can imagine that it is captivating when sung for real, and it certainly struck me as being beautiful in its harmonic motion. My winners were 1.John Biggs 2.David Howard 3.paolo eriani 4.David Stowell 5.David Monks

[adrianallan]

So the Order is

1. John Biggs winner by a large margin, congratulations 64 points

2. Andrew Noah Cap 36 points

3. Ed Sharpe 34 points

4. Adrian Allan, paolo Eriani, John Summers 25 points

5. David Stowell 21 points

[Kevin]

Many thanks for organizing this one Adrian. Also thanks to the many comments that have been written about the music. It was a long haul to get through all of this great stuff!

[Deleted]

It's a shame I didn't do any better, but congratulations to the winners! Lots of different and interesting music! Thank you Adrian for organizing and posting the results!

[adrianallan]

Results breakdown. How many voted for each place

1st

Beware by Adrian Allan

0%
0
Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap

6.25%
1
Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs

43.75%
7
Gloria by Anne Goodwin

0%
0
4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell

0%
0
With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley

6.25%
1
Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson

0%
0
They Told Me by Charles Gaskell

0%
0
59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe

18.75%
3
Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani

12.50%
2
Crux Fidelis by David Monks

0%
0
Oriental Soup by David Howard

0%
0
Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers

12.50%
2
Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones

0%
0
Fanfare by David Harrison

0%
0
Flitteracy by Richard Wayland

0%
0
Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati

0%
0
Total Respondents: 16

2nd

Beware by Adrian Allan

18.75%
3
Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap

25%
4
Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs

12.50%
2
Gloria by Anne Goodwin

0%
0
4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell

6.25%
1
With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley

6.25%
1
Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson

0%
0
They Told Me by Charles Gaskell

0%
0
59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe

12.50%
2
Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani

0%
0
Crux Fidelis by David Monks

0%
0
Oriental Soup by David Howard

6.25%
1
Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers

6.25%
1
Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones

6.25%
1
Fanfare by David Harrison

0%
0
Flitteracy by Richard Wayland

0%
0
Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati

12.50%
2
Total Respondents: 16

3rd

Beware by Adrian Allan

18.75%
3
Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap

6.25%
1
Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs

6.25%
1
Gloria by Anne Goodwin

0%
0
4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell

18.75%
3
With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley

6.25%
1
Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson

0%
0
They Told Me by Charles Gaskell

0%
0
59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe

12.50%
2
Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani

18.75%
3
Crux Fidelis by David Monks

6.25%
1
Oriental Soup by David Howard

6.25%
1
Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers

12.50%
2
Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones

0%
0
Fanfare by David Harrison

0%
0
Flitteracy by Richard Wayland

6.25%
1
Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati

0%
0
Total Respondents: 16

4th

Beware by Adrian Allan

0%
0
Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap

6.25%
1
Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs

6.25%
1
Gloria by Anne Goodwin

0%
0
4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell

18.75%
3
With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley

6.25%
1
Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson

6.25%
1
They Told Me by Charles Gaskell

0%
0
59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe

6.25%
1
Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani

6.25%
1
Crux Fidelis by David Monks

0%
0
Oriental Soup by David Howard

25%
4
Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers

0%
0
Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones

12.50%
2
Fanfare by David Harrison

0%
0
Flitteracy by Richard Wayland

0%
0
Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati

6.25%
1
Total 16

5th

Beware by Adrian Allan

6.25%
1
Ahvos Lied-Partitur by Andrew Noah Cap

12.50%
2
Under Lincolnshire Skies by John Biggs

0%
0
Gloria by Anne Goodwin

0%
0
4 Brief Moments for Percussion by David Stowell

6.25%
1
With A Spring in His Step by Kevin Riley

6.25%
1
Summer Evening By The River by Tony Jefferson

6.25%
1
They Told Me by Charles Gaskell

6.25%
1
59,620 Years (The Return of Mars) by Ed Sharpe

0%
0
Rondeau Prestige for Wind Quintet by Paolo Eriani

0%
0
Crux Fidelis by David Monks

25%
4
Oriental Soup by David Howard

6.25%
1
Solitary Music 7th Movement by John Summers

0%
0
Meditation for Peace by Allan H.Jones

0%
0
Fanfare by David Harrison

6.25%
1
Flitteracy by Richard Wayland

12.50%
2
Three Impertinences by Kedarnath Awati

6.25%
1
Total 16

[adrianallan]

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AqxcoIJTBoSadGtmbDI2VnZKdVQ4QUhwa2FPc0pBZ0E&oid=5&zx=c6ulrvh75o3o%22%20/%3E

A chart to make the thing more visual!

[paoloeriani]

Congratulations to the winner and I liked the comments to my piece and I thanks everyone. To the one that asked why I chose the "C" sign, it was just because it is the original sign.

[allanh]

Well done Adrian for organising this competition and well done to all the winners. It's great to read all the comments and all the different opinions that people have on all the different styles.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the comments and thanks again to those who voted for my Impertinences...it seems that the Sons of Sibelius spawns a variety of musicians in addition to engaging in lively debate and encouraging individual opinion. Way to go...!
Thank you Adrian for arranging the whole thing...

[John Biggs]

A big thanks to Adrian for putting this competition together in such a slick and timely manner.

I guess it was a bit of a mad idea given the diversity of music put forward. And it made trying to assess these in any sort of order extremely difficult. All of the compositions have great merit - and I spent many hours listening to these on a playlist on my mp3.

I think the most important thing is that it gave me – and may be you also the chance to experience others music at a deeper level. It was interesting that my ranking of pieces changed as I became more familiar with pieces. I didn’t look at the scores at all – I was mainly interested in the music as it sounded – creative content – and was I drawn back to it.

Whilst I voted – I never reviewed any pieces. Given the effort that others have put in I think I should share some thoughts on the rankings I arrived at:

1st Paolo Eriani

It was great to hear a live performance. The musicians were very competent and gave a fine rendition of your work. Well constructed, lovely textures, and the instruments used to there full technical potential. A lyrical piece with sweet harmonies, and a fugue thrown in for good measure.

2nd David Stowell

This piece just draws you in. At times hypnotic and dreamlike this was a cleverly constructed soundscape which improved every time I played it. You capture so much with so little. I especially enjoyed the 3rd and fourth Movements

3rd Andrew Noahcap

A Beautiful piece. – And for sometime this was ranking as no. 1 for me. The stern opening set the mood for a very enjoyable journey. After a several listenings I just wondered if a few more twists and turns in that musical journey might have enhanced this piece even more. But I was taken with piece this on first listening.

4th Ed Sharpe

The music depicted effectively what Ed intended. Your use of rhythm and textures created for me a primitive Soundscape of fear and uneasiness mirroring the Neanderthal Psyche as they seek stability through the chant. Smartly constructed piece.

5th Charles Gaskell

I found the vocal works the most difficult to judge – I don’t think they come across as favourably on Sib Sounds as the instrumental music. Again with this piece, I felt it created a definite mood which after a few hearings grabbed my attention. The music conveys an intense sense of tragedy. I thought the piano was also extremely effective and complimented the vocal.

That’s my top 5 – but I would also like to mention that of all the pieces I listened to the Violin melody from Adrian’s “Beware” was the tune which popped into my head the most, when not listening to anything at all. I Always take this as a good sign, that you have written something quite catchy. It is a strong melody.

It remains for me to say thank you for everyones comments

[davidmonks]

Congratulations to John Biggs, a worthy winner!

Congratulations also to all who participated. I am honoured to be in such company.

Thanks and appreciation to all who made comments.

And well done, Adrian! You did a great job.

[paoloeriani]

Many thanks John, glad you enjoyed listening to the piece!

[Deleted]

Yes, I concur that all the comments were very helpful- not just regarding my own piece, but 'analysing the analysis' of other composers as to their differing views on all the pieces.
Thanks, Adrian, for your organisation and attention to detail.Well worth it.

John

[Deleted]

Dear All,
           I am sorry I could not hear all the pieces, but I thought I'd put in my ten cents worth about what I was able to listen to.
           John Biggs's piece deserved to win and I hope he is young enough to be able to write a whole lot more...because of all the entries he showed himself to be most at home in all departments of composition.  His use of English folk tunes (or what sounds like English folk tunes) has been a hall mark of all the major English composers so when I say that I can hear in his music something of Britten, something of Holst Vaughn-Williams and even Elgar, I don't at all want to belittle his entirely original achievement.  But I believe that by allying himself to an authentic tradition, he puts himself in line to become an important figure in this tradition.

           Adrian's piece showed that he has the gift of melody.  Faure would certainly have approved.  His title "Beware" was intriguing...reminded me of a quote from King Lear

"And above all, save me from the cruel madness of love,

The honey of its poison-flowers and all the measureless ill"  (!!!)


           Of the pieces for voice, the Crux Fidelis and the Gloria suffered through no fault of their own...it is just that MIDI tends to be most unkind to those who use voices.  The piece Solitary Music fares much better because of the beautiful contralto voice...I liked all three pieces and I hope the Gloria and the Crux Fidelis get a performance soon!

           Ahvos-Lied-Partitur is beautifully written and one of the most peaceful of all the entries.  Only one question...if the composer is British, the cadences are a bit too Teutonic?

        The Oriental Soup tasted really good, but I felt it was a bit short.  When Handel found a good tune, he lost no time in using it as many times as he could...in order to this he had to include enough episodes to justify its continual return...so this piece needed not just one "bridge" but several.

        Flitteracy was a delight to listen to...very Debussy and yet not.  A "fine" piece in the sense that the care taken in its composition is plain to behold. Very sophisticated.

               If any of the pieces aroused a positive sense of envy in me, its the Four Brief Pieces for Percussion.  I love to hear the percussion speak and its something that I am really not good at all at doing.  Bravo!

           With a Spring in His Step, was exactly what the composer had said it would be...cute...the middle section had me a tad confused...I was finally able to rationalize it as the Ben the rabbit's world view...am I way off track here?

           Meditation was moving more like a hymn than a meditation.  Also may be some contrasting ideas.  Which is not to say that I didn't like it.  It's just that I would have used longer notes though and a couple more pedal tones...but maybe thats just me.

           The piece Summer Evening started well enough, but did not cohere completely...so after a while I got a bit lost.  A suggestion...it sometimes helps to listen very carefully to one's opening melody.  My belief is that if one does, then the melody tells you exactly how it wants to be developed.

          The Return of Mars is a nice enough piece (some of the rhythms etc were very well laid out), but Mars or Ares is also mythologically a fearsome character...This piece was written in 2003...not long after September 11th 2001.  In the nineties after the break-up of the Soviet Union people actually believed for a while that there would be no need for wars.  Now I understand fully well about Mars's apogee etc, but we cannot control the reactions of audiences to one's titles...today any reference to the Return of Mars would bring to mind immediately the idea of a return to war.  The piece did not reflect this aspect of the title enough.  Still, a beautiful score and piece





 

[Ed Sharpe]

Jul 23, 2013 7:05:02 GMT @kedar said:

...


 The piece did not reflect this aspect of the title enough.  Still, a beautiful score and piece

 

Did you read the program note?

[Deleted]

Hello Ed Sharpe,
                       I don't really like reading program notes, but in the case of your piece, the title was so unusual, that I did read the program notes...in a ballet by Stravinsky, each section has its own sub-title as well that serves as some sort of a "program".  Yet, the title of the entire piece, "The Rite of Spring" sums up for the audience the entire musical experience.  In your case I don't think it quite does...but as I always say...perhaps its just me...

[Deleted]

A very quick postscript to my comments yesterday...about my Impertinences for piano, many commented that all three were atonal, whereas that was true of only the first one. There is another thread in which the tonal vs atonal debate has been going on in lively fashion. The impression that a casual non-partisan non-musician observer might have on observing the direction of the debate is that there are two kinds of music, tonal and atonal and accordingly two kinds of composers.
This is not the case. I am providing a You Tube link to a fun piece of mine played by an amateur orchestra. I hope that it brings a smile to the lips...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HQUXc_aglw

[adrianallan]

Jul 24, 2013 6:03:39 GMT @kedar said:

A very quick postscript to my comments yesterday...about my Impertinences for piano, many commented that all three were atonal, whereas that was true of only the first one. There is another thread in which the tonal vs atonal debate has been going on in lively fashion. The impression that a casual non-partisan non-musician observer might have on observing the direction of the debate is that there are two kinds of music, tonal and atonal and accordingly two kinds of composers.
This is not the case. I am providing a You Tube link to a fun piece of mine played by an amateur orchestra. I hope that it brings a smile to the lips...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HQUXc_aglw

Nice piece.

I am always open to listening to new styles, tonal or atonal or something with elements of both.

However, if a piece is very difficult, ie not immediately obvious melodies or even rhythmic patterns, I really appreciate programme notes to give me some sense of idea of what the composer is aiming for.

[Deleted]

Thank you, Adrian. You are probably right. I have never had a problem understanding composers and the duality of their craft. Which means that they first of all have something to say (call it emotion, idea, picture or whatever) and then they have to have a way of saying it. But I think in the world we live in today, many do not get to hear music that you and I may perhaps take for granted...so I guess we really can't do without program notes...

[Joseph]

Jul 24, 2013 6:03:39 GMT @kedar said:

". . . There is another thread in which the tonal vs atonal debate has been going on in lively fashion. The impression that a casual non-partisan non-musician observer might have on observing the direction of the debate is that there are two kinds of music, tonal and atonal and accordingly two kinds of composers . . ."

a somewhat extrapolated perspective on the thread IMHO.  Suggesting that a "casual non-partisan non-musician observer" can only see black & white does a disservice to their intelligence.  Any reasonably informed person has experienced the cross-over factor so prevalent in music. 

[Ed Sharpe]

Jul 24, 2013 5:47:39 GMT @kedar said:

...In your case I don't think it quite does...

I have never been completely happy with the title and I am open to suggestions for it.

[adrianallan]

Jul 24, 2013 14:59:14 GMT Joseph said:

Jul 24, 2013 6:03:39 GMT @kedar said:

". . . There is another thread in which the tonal vs atonal debate has been going on in lively fashion. The impression that a casual non-partisan non-musician observer might have on observing the direction of the debate is that there are two kinds of music, tonal and atonal and accordingly two kinds of composers . . ."

a somewhat extrapolated perspective on the thread IMHO.  Suggesting that a "casual non-partisan non-musician observer" can only see black & white does a disservice to their intelligence.  Any reasonably informed person has experienced the cross-over factor so prevalent in music. 

I can sort of see where Kedar is coming from on this.

I do notice a definite divide on this forum and other between those who embrace atonal or strongly dissonant and those who are left dumbfounded by it.

Even in collecting the results from this competition I did notice the two schools of thought.

I think that Kedar is an unusual exception, being somebody who has written both styles in recent years.

I have even heard one composer say that he is no longer interested in any form of tonal composition, because he has moved away from that style many years ago and it no longer interest him at all.

I, for one, cant understand such an opinion. Those who are bored of traditional harmony should have a look at chord substitution, and when they have mastered that to the same degree as Art Tatum, then I might believe that all tonal avenues have been explored.

[Deleted]

Adrian mentions chord substitution in his last post as a way out of purely traditional harmony.

I think one constantly has to try new things including what Adrian has suggested above. After all Beethoven reportedly said, "Art demands of us that we never stand still."

Composing is a very personal and lonely affair...the first fear of a composer is whether or not the piece being composed will stand up as "music" or not.  The second and bigger fear is that of unconsciously copying someone else's style.  Ned Rorem once said that once one becomes aware that one is copying something, then it becomes easier to deal with it...intervals of the melody can be changed...the rhythm can be modified and of course, chords substituted.

I write the following not out of any desire for sympathy, but being first and foremost a teacher I hope that those younger than me can profit by avoiding some of the pitfalls that I fell into.  My biggest mistake was at the age of 18 to take Boulez's "Music Today" more seriously than the study of harmony and counterpoint.  I wasted a lot of time and 18 years later (in 1993) began to suffer from what I now understand as amusia...an inability to hear music at all...I could only hear it as sound!  The piece on You Tube that I had posted earlier in this thread, was very much the culmination of my recovery (although performed in November 2006, the Viennese Allegro was written in 1997.)  The process of my recovery began earlier (believe it or not) with playing nursery rhymes on the piano!

On the other hand, despite exhortations (mostly from my former students) that I add three more movements to make a Viennese symphony, I am reluctant to do so.  I could probably do it over a period of six to eight weeks, but what would it amount to?  It would not be a "genuine" symphony of our times...at best a pastiche of the older Viennese school...it would compare favorably with Spohr, for example, but beyond that what?

So, one struggles (more like "straggles"!) on...hopefully over the next few years I will be able to share a real symphony with the SOS.  One thing I do know...parts of it are likely to be deliciously tonal while other parts may not.  Meanwhile writing music for the piano is a nice rewarding diversion and at least such music has a much better chance of getting performed!

A piece of advice for the youngsters on this thread:  Brush up on your harmony and counterpoint...that way you have a "fallback" option of a well-tried and well-understood musical idiom...if things sound too traditional then there is no harm in taking Adrian's advice on chord substitution, to which one can add things like rhythmic and melodic variation...and BTW, studying counterpoint through the species method is the most boring way to go...give yourself the exercise of writing a short fugue...it is neither as difficult nor as easy as you think it is, but once you've done you will feel great!

[adrianallan]

Jul 25, 2013 6:36:07 GMT @kedar said:

Adrian mentions chord substitution in his last post as a way out of purely traditional harmony.

I think one constantly has to try new things including what Adrian has suggested above. After all Beethoven reportedly said, "Art demands of us that we never stand still."

Composing is a very personal and lonely affair...the first fear of a composer is whether or not the piece being composed will stand up as "music" or not.  The second and bigger fear is that of unconsciously copying someone else's style.  Ned Rorem once said that once one becomes aware that one is copying something, then it becomes easier to deal with it...intervals of the melody can be changed...the rhythm can be modified and of course, chords substituted.

I write the following not out of any desire for sympathy, but being first and foremost a teacher I hope that those younger than me can profit by avoiding some of the pitfalls that I fell into.  My biggest mistake was at the age of 18 to take Boulez's "Music Today" more seriously than the study of harmony and counterpoint.  I wasted a lot of time and 18 years later (in 1993) began to suffer from what I now understand as amusia...an inability to hear music at all...I could only hear it as sound!  The piece on You Tube that I had posted earlier in this thread, was very much the culmination of my recovery (although performed in November 2006, the Viennese Allegro was written in 1997.)  The process of my recovery began earlier (believe it or not) with playing nursery rhymes on the piano!

On the other hand, despite exhortations (mostly from my former students) that I add three more movements to make a Viennese symphony, I am reluctant to do so.  I could probably do it over a period of six to eight weeks, but what would it amount to?  It would not be a "genuine" symphony of our times...at best a pastiche of the older Viennese school...it would compare favorably with Spohr, for example, but beyond that what?

So, one struggles (more like "straggles"!) on...hopefully over the next few years I will be able to share a real symphony with the SOS.  One thing I do know...parts of it are likely to be deliciously tonal while other parts may not.  Meanwhile writing music for the piano is a nice rewarding diversion and at least such music has a much better chance of getting performed!

A piece of advice for the youngsters on this thread:  Brush up on your harmony and counterpoint...that way you have a "fallback" option of a well-tried and well-understood musical idiom...if things sound too traditional then there is no harm in taking Adrian's advice on chord substitution, to which one can add things like rhythmic and melodic variation...and BTW, studying counterpoint through the species method is the most boring way to go...give yourself the exercise of writing a short fugue...it is neither as difficult nor as easy as you think it is, but once you've done you will feel great!

I think one of the main things you are getting at here is finding your own voice as a composer. That is definitely one of the hardest aims of all. It also perhaps means that we have to absorb where society is up to as a whole with its collective ear, in order to stay relevant. eg. Is a perfect cadence so predictable to 21 century ears that we need to spice it up.

On the other hand some people seem to try too hard in the quest to say something new that they loose their audience completely. It is the balance that I am looking for.

If you go to music sites like Composers Forum you will hear many young composers just regurgitating Hanz Zimmer or some other bombastic film score. Some others on there are piano composers who are very good, but just sound like Chopin rolled into late Beethoven.

It is rare to find somebody who writes tonally, but has something interesting or compelling to say. That is the greatest challenge for me and maybe I will never get there, but it is the drive that makes me carry on.

[Deleted]

Spot on Adrian! One should never try too hard. One should listen carefully to the fragmentary phrases that come to our mind unbidden...one's ego should be removed and placed on a nearby shelf for later use...almost invariably the notes then speak to you...and the music that you write is then written "through" you rather than "by" you...

[adrianallan]

Jul 25, 2013 8:05:16 GMT @kedar said:

Spot on Adrian! One should never try too hard. One should listen carefully to the fragmentary phrases that come to our mind unbidden...one's ego should be removed and placed on a nearby shelf for later use...almost invariably the notes then speak to you...and the music that you write is then written "through" you rather than "by" you...

I once chipped away at a lump of stone and imagine my surprise when I found a beautiful sculpture hidden inside.

[Deleted]

[wizzarts]

"Kill your darlings", is what they said

[Deleted]

That's pretty apt...! I'd say, "Don't fall in love with what you have composed."