SOS Vocal Composition Challenge

[Deleted]

Thanks for your entry Ed and welcome to the challenge.

[Deleted]

For those of you who would like a little more assistance, take a look at this link:

preview.channel4learning.com/espresso/clipbank/html/ws_music_composing_journal.html

One more question to add to those in this particular link:

How is the word-setting of my piece coming along?
Are words with more than one syllable properly divided?

[Deleted]

In a world where nobody bothers how you spell a word (not to mention all the misused words and all the grammatical rules that used to be so important and now nobody except you and I even know that they exist) isn't it a bit optimistic to worry about syllabification?

And yes, I do know I should have said "nobody except you and me even knows .... " - but I wonder how many other people noticed.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2013 7:59:18 GMT @tonyj said:

In a world where nobody bothers how you spell a word (not to mention all the misused words and all the grammatical rules that used to be so important and now nobody except you and I even know that they exist) isn't it a bit optimistic to worry about syllabification?

And yes, I do know I should have said "nobody except you and me even knows .... " - but I wonder how many other people noticed.

In a world where nobody bothers how you spell a word (not to mention all the misused words and all the grammatical rules that ...) okay, I'm going to stop you there Tony. Because the following bit where you say "all the grammatical rules that used to be so important and now nobody except you and I even know they exist" is where I take issue. First of all, all the grammatical rules that used to be so important are STILL important and secondly, if no one but you and me even know they exist, then I think it must be up to you and me to put a little education out there.

Definitely it is an uphill battle but it is an uphill battle that has always existed. Certainly as I was growing up (particularly if you actually knew where that was), it was an ongoing struggle for both parents and teachers to work at turning me (and others around me) into becoming literate adults who would know how to 'speak' (not 'talk) well. Now, as a parent and as an educator (I spent 20 years teaching piano lessons), I see it as my responsibility to push back at the verbal slackness that is all around. And now, at this point in my life, I understand why I was constantly corrected when I was younger. Civilization depends on the strength of peoples' abilities to communicate and to communicate at the deepest levels. In that sense, therefore, the current trend of text messaging to do everything from letting your spouse know that you would like milk picked up on (his) way home to the younger generation's choice to sometimes 'dump' their significant other is a real backwards step in meaningful human behaviour. So, agreed, that I am setting the bar high here but hopefully, at least for the participants of this challenge, there will be one or two useful lessons learned regarding "how to do things right" and moreover, to put thought, love and care into whatever project they are currently working on.

Let me know if you have further thoughts on this matter ... and thanks for bringing up the point.

[Joseph]

re: language . . .
it's not that I disagree but I think language needs to be a bit more alive than I feel you, Anne & Tony, insinuate. Language is about communication. It has evolved and will continue to evolve. Words and rules for their use become a part of the fabric mostly based on their accepted usage. The OED puts out a daily email and over the course of the years I have subscribed, many words have been added to the book based on their usage in contemporary society. IMHO though, some things are just wrong, like someone saying "ek-cet-er-a rather than "et-cet-er-a. A linguist once argued with me suggesting as I have at the start that language changes over time and the pronunciation is acceptable. Balderdash. But sometimes it just is what it is . . . for example, the freedom some writers take with an ellipsis (myself included) is most often incorrect in it's scripting but we accept it.

[Deleted]

Anne, I have every sympathy with your point of view, but I do think you're swimming against the tide. Good luck to you in your endeavours.

And Joe, you're absolutely right about language evolving. Where I think the problem arises is the concept of established usage. What's established usage where I am in the UK can sound wrong, or mean something different, in America, and what was established usage when I was a boy half a century ago can sound incredibly archaic now.

And finally, a confession. I enjoy writing songs using old poems, not all of them in English, as lyrics. And although I tend to think of myself as too pedantic for my own good, it's only quite recently that I've discovered that different languages have different conventions for engraving song texts (eg in English we insert capital letters at the start of lines of the poem, even when the words are set out not as a poem but as lyrics in a score; in German they don't. In Russian they split words into syllables in a way that seems absolutely illogical, and they also don't use a lot of hyphens and horizontal lines to extend a single syllable over several notes). And I think that was the reason for my little rant above: I was just annoyed with myself for not having noticed that before, in spite of all the song scores I've studied over the years. My apologies for going off topic.

Now before I'm accused of hijacking another thread, errrm, how's this competition going, Anne?

[Deleted]

So, I now have a detailed evaluation form ready to present to the judges. The problem I am now attempting to 'figure out' is how to keep the logistics of the paperwork as simple as possible for the judges so that they can focus more on judging and less on administrative duties. I had promised all participants that I would send the evaluation forms to them but this is going to involve a lot of 'paperwork' on everyone's part and this concerns me. If, on the other hand, participants feel that simply being given a mark and that a brief 'synopsis' of the judge's opinion of their work is sufficient, then a lot of the logistics would disappear. I know that there is software available for allowing forms to be filled in at one's computer but I am not personally familiar with any of it. And, the form I have made is really quite detailed.

[Joseph]

Mar 7, 2013 14:59:00 GMT @annegoodwin said:

So, I now have a detailed evaluation form ready to present to the judges. The problem I am now attempting to 'figure out' is how to keep the logistics of the paperwork as simple as possible for the judges so that they can focus more on judging and less on administrative duties. I had promised all participants that I would send the evaluation forms to them but this is going to involve a lot of 'paperwork' on everyone's part and this concerns me. If, on the other hand, participants feel that simply being given a mark and that a brief 'synopsis' of the judge's opinion of their work is sufficient, then a lot of the logistics would disappear. I know that there is software available for allowing forms to be filled in at one's computer but I am not personally familiar with any of it. And, the form I have made is really quite detailed.

seems like overkill for a "friendly" competition.  I am sure you want to do what's right by the participants but, methinks you try too hard!

[adrianallan]

I'm sure that a mark out of 10 and a few of sentences of critique would be quite sufficient. That's all I would expect and is what we've had before on this forum.

Also, we're used to sharing the marks and critiques on here, because it's of interest to us all, and nobody has yet objected.

[Deleted]

SonsofSibelius Vocal Composition Challenge_....pdf (49.08 KB)

Mar 7, 2013 18:39:20 GMT adrianallan said:

I'm sure that a mark out of 10 and a few of sentences of critique would be quite sufficient. That's all I would expect and is what we've had before on this forum.

Also, we're used to sharing the marks and critiques on here, because it's of interest to us all, and nobody has yet objected.

Thanks Joseph and Adrian for your replies. I think, then, that I will use the evaluation form (attached pdf) as a guide for the judges to use. I think I will still ask for marks out of 100 but rather than having the judges return any forms to me, I'll simply ask them for the marks and for their comments from Section D of the form. Does this sound alright to everyone then?

[John Biggs]

Sounds good to me. I mean - lets face it we're lucky to have somebody to listen to these compositions at all - let alone offer some constructive comments!

[Ed Sharpe]

Should 3.B add the following:

... or Tone Row Choice, Tone Row Manipulation, Tone Row Effectiveness ? :-) :-)

"...somebody to listen to these compositions..." Are they not just reading the score? I was under the impression that we are only submitting a score not a recording or did I get that wrong?

[Deleted]

Mar 7, 2013 22:27:16 GMT Ed Sharpe said:

Should 3.B add the following:

... or Tone Row Choice, Tone Row Manipulation, Tone Row Effectiveness ? :-) :-)

"...somebody to listen to these compositions..." Are they not just reading the score? I was under the impression that we are only submitting a score not a recording or did I get that wrong?

Thanks for your suggestion about Tone Rows Ed. I have incorporated this into the evaluation form.

With respect to the inclusion of an audio, this is purely voluntary and I am only accepting audios that are derived from the score, meaning that only the sounds available with the notational software, presumably Sibelius for this challenge, shall be accepted. As mentioned in an earlier post, this is to maintain a level 'playing field' in that area of 'music production'.

Also, as you are mentioning, the focus of this challenge is on the score itself. Hopefully you do see this reflected in the evaluation form that I presented yesterday.

[Joseph]

Mar 8, 2013 15:12:04 GMT @annegoodwin said:

Mar 7, 2013 22:27:16 GMT Ed Sharpe said:

With respect to the inclusion of an audio, this is purely voluntary and I am only accepting audios that are derived from the score, meaning that only the sounds available with the notational software, presumably Sibelius for this challenge, shall be accepted.

Ok, you have probably answered this question already but admittedly I am too lazy to scan 4 pages of comments.  Do you want a PDF or Sib score submitted?  Extrapolating from the quote in your last post, if I submit a PDF I can also provide an MP3 as long as it is derived directly from Sibelius without modification.  If I submit a Sib score, will the judges have access to the Sibelius program to listen to a playback?  Or, will the judges not consider playback of the file (which would make moot the submission of an MP3 file along with an entry) in their judging?  Joseph

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2013 17:11:32 GMT Joseph said:

Mar 8, 2013 15:12:04 GMT @annegoodwin said:

With respect to the inclusion of an audio, this is purely voluntary and I am only accepting audios that are derived from the score, meaning that only the sounds available with the notational software, presumably Sibelius for this challenge, shall be accepted.

Ok, you have probably answered this question already but admittedly I am too lazy to scan 4 pages of comments.  Do you want a PDF or Sib score submitted?  Extrapolating from the quote in your last post, if I submit a PDF I can also provide an MP3 as long as it is derived directly from Sibelius without modification.  If I submit a Sib score, will the judges have access to the Sibelius program to listen to a playback?  Or, will the judges not consider playback of the file (which would make moot the submission of an MP3 file along with an entry) in their judging?  Joseph

Your comment is very timely Joseph as I was just about to put up some instructions here for everyone. Before I do that, I will simply respond to what you are asking about the purpose of the audio. The audio is meant only as an AID for the judges. It is NOT meant to be considered as part of the criteria whatsoever. Therefore, making and submitting an audio is NOT required technically; however, I expect that everyone will probably submit an MP3 of the music because why wouldn't you want the judge to hear at least something of the score? I have no way of knowing to what degree each of the judges can actually 'hear' the music when doing a 'visual' of the score so therefore I do recommend that each participant submits the MP3 alongside the score. I hope this reply is at least slightly clearer than mud!

[Deleted]

I have sent out the evaluation package along with instructions to each of the judges. Each judge has reported back to me that it is all very clear to them. I hope, therefore, to manage to do the same now in putting down instructions for participants regarding submitting the entries.

Before I do that, however, I will list the participants as they are currently known/understood to me from various posts made in this thread. I have the following names put as being interested in participating in this challenge, some of whom have already submitted their scores:

1. Dave (djh255)
2. John Biggs
3. Adrian Allan (adrianallan)
4. Joseph (zepposonno)
5. Ed Sharpe

[Deleted]

Instructions To Participants Regarding The Submission Of Their Vocal Compositions

1. Send vocal composition score (and audio if you wish to do so) to the temporary email address that I will send to each of you by PM. You are to send out THREE messages in the following way:
1) In the title line, put: SOS Vocal Composition Challenge: My Entry
2) In the first message, address it to: Judge #One; in the second message, address it to: Judge #2; in the third message,
address it to: Judge #3
3) Sign each message with your full name and put in the country where you are currently residing and living.

2. You are allowed, in the email messages, to write 2 sentences of up to 10 words each to say something to the judges about your composition and/or about yourself.

3. Finally, by PM, send me the address to which you wish the chorale booklets (and prizes if you win one of them) sent so that I will be able to do this at the very end of the challenge process.

Please let me know if there are any questions to the above instructions. Thank you!

Anne

[Ed Sharpe]

I will not be submitting an audio file as my score is not a "play back" score. I also make use of tone colors and instruments that are not available in Sibelius.

After the Judging I will be posting a full audio file (created in Sonar).


(PS: I have no issues with the rules as they are now. I do not feel that me not having an audio file will disadvantage me in any significant way.)

[Joseph]

Mar 11, 2013 17:51:44 GMT @annegoodwin said:

". . . I have no way of knowing to what degree each of the judges can actually 'hear' the music when doing a 'visual' of the score so therefore I do recommend that each participant submits the MP3 alongside the score. I hope this reply is at least slightly clearer than mud! "

I just want to say that I think Ed should be allowed to submit an MP3. Based on what we've seen of his work, it is obvious Sibelius will not provide the necessary support.  If everyone is submitting an audio sample then I think it is only fair that Ed also has the opportunity to do so.  And since you, Anne, are not sure to what degree the judges can "hear", it just makes sense.  Looking at his score it is obvious more than a little effort was expended.  Joseph

[Ed Sharpe]

There is no need to alter the rules for me. I knew the rules before starting the piece and I would feel funny if the rules where altered because of me.

I wrote the piece as a challenge to myself, that was my only motivation.

[Kevin]

May I add how impressed I am (and I am sure I speak for guests and other members)about the quality of the music that is being presented for adjudication on this challenge. Such a variety of styles.

[Joseph]

Mar 11, 2013 18:03:44 GMT @annegoodwin said:

Instructions To Participants Regarding The Submission Of Their Vocal Compositions


3. Finally, by PM, send me the address to which you wish the chorale booklets (and prizes if you win one of them) sent so that I will be able to do this at the very end of the challenge process.

Please let me know if there are any questions to the above instructions. Thank you!

Anne

snail mail address?

[Deleted]

So, regarding the posts pertaining to a non-Sibelius audio, I will permit this only upon request by the judges to have an audio. I'm concerned about changing the rules with respect to what we have already established concerning making an audio and I appreciate that Ed understands this. And thank you for that Ed.

Thanks also to Kevin for his post. I am myself anxiously awaiting the deadline so that I can begin to hear everyone else's compositions.

Finally, Joseph, indeed 'snail mail address' as I do not own a transporter just yet and therefore, unless you are satisfied by simply having the pdf - which is actually freely available here on this site, that is the only method that I know of to get an actual booklet put into your hands!

[Deleted]

Oh yes, also, along with the audio, it is a PDF file that I wish participants to send to the judges via the temporary email address. Just clarifying that. Thanks.

[Joseph]

Mar 12, 2013 18:22:59 GMT @annegoodwin said:

Finally, Joseph, indeed 'snail mail address' as I do not own a transporter just yet and therefore, unless you are satisfied by simply having the pdf - which is actually freely available here on this site, that is the only method that I know of to get an actual booklet put into your hands!

the PDF will be fine, Anne. Thank you.

[Deleted]

No, I understand the reluctance of giving out an address. Also, I apologize if I sounded a bit 'tart' or something. I just came back from the chiropractor and was long overdue for an adjustment. It is amazing to find out how much better I feel when the bones are all put back in place. Anyway, the only other thing I can suggest if participants are reluctant to provide a mailing address is that I can perhaps mail everything to Kevin and if Kevin is willing, then he can look after ensuring that everyone gets the 'stuff' they're supposed to get at the end of this. Just a thought ...

[djh255]

Mar 12, 2013 18:24:08 GMT @annegoodwin said:

Oh yes, also, along with the audio, it is a PDF file that I wish participants to send to the judges via the temporary email address. Just clarifying that. Thanks.

I'm getting confused - do I understand you want us to submit a PDF and NOT a Sib file?

Dave

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2013 15:54:20 GMT djh255 said:

Mar 12, 2013 18:24:08 GMT @annegoodwin said:

Oh yes, also, along with the audio, it is a PDF file that I wish participants to send to the judges via the temporary email address. Just clarifying that. Thanks.

I'm getting confused - do I understand you want us to submit a PDF and NOT a Sib file?

Dave

That is correct. There are a couple of different reasons for that, one of the primary ones being that not all of the judges have or use Sibelius themselves. Another reason, from my own point of view, is that one of the main objectives in this challenge is YOUR ability to produce an excellent score that is easily readable by anyone who is trained and skilled at reading music which includes anyone from the student level to professional performers who may one day be interested in your unique piece of music.

We have been putting Sib files here for each other. For the judges, you must submit a pdf file.

Thanks for letting me know that you were having a question about this Dave.

[Ed Sharpe]

If you are on windows and need a PDF solution you can try

sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/?source=directory

PDFCreator

Description
PDFCreator easily creates PDFs from any Windows program. Use it like a printer in Word, Excel or any other Windows application. A PDF takes less storage space, and is easier to send with email. Make PDF creator part of your the software suite you have installed on your computer for easy PDF creation.


Note: It is free.

[Kevin]

Just a heads up to you all.

The competition closes in 8 days!!